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Hatteras at Ft Lauderdale Boat Show

Discussion in 'Hatteras Yacht' started by wac45, Sep 25, 2014.

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  1. TBY

    TBY Guest

    I appear to have caused some confusion here...yes I am a broker but I am not soliciting my services in any way...I am also a Hatteras enthusiast and like to share information about the brand that is not in any sales brochure, but learned from my visits to the factory, talking with the Hatteras engineers and sea trialing the boats.

    I find this information to be interesting and thought others would too....
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Problem is, you're about a week late to the party. Some of us have known about it for a few weeks. I agree that some of the information posted is beneficial to members and so forth, but don't blow smoke up our a@@ with false statements about various other things, such as pods. If you notice, Vikings only successful open boat (according to you) only comes with pods and always has come with pods (for example). The pods were also a very successful option on the Cabo 40's for years.
  3. TBY

    TBY Guest

    Capt J, I am not trashing pods at all and think that they are a great propulsion platform for a lot of models...the Volvo Penta IPS for the Tiara Sovrans, Marquis 42, 50 and 66, Riviera 6000 Sport Yacht, etc... and Sea Ray Sundancers 41, 47, 54 with the Zeus Pods and many other manufacturers. For a cruising yacht they have proven over time to work out their initial issues they had for the first few years. These are in most cases lighter weight cruising yachts that are not subjected to heavy stress like the drivetrains of shortfishing yachts.

    To my knowledge the only Cabos that ever had pods were the 36 and 40...if they were so great why not put them on other models?

    Hatteras made a prototype 54 convertible with pods a few years back and mothballed the project...they just could not get the right performance out of them.

    Look at the performance of the 40 Cabo with pods...if you are so familiar with the boat tell us what the cruising and top end speed was? Could it cruise at 33-34 knots and top out at 40+? And how much better was the fuel efficiency really than shaft drives?

    The proven reliability of the shaft drive platform as well as its greater torque and response I believe is the best platform for a bluewater offshore fishing yacht.

    In the future when heavier duty pods come out this all may change...I heard that CAT is going to be coming out with their own pod drive in a year or 2 that you will be able to buy extended warranties for up to 10 years just like their motors...will be interesting to see what the future holds.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Hatteras never used a 54' with pods. Hatteras donated a 64' SF that didn't come out of the mold right to ZF who then outfitted it with pods, 3 or 4 of them, I think 4 but cannot remember. The 64' SF was a poor hull design and lived a short life and was replaced by the 63'. But it wasn't Hatteras who did the project, ZF did it and used it to test their pods.

    Pods offer the best fuel economy gains in a twin engine installation (30-40%). On a tripe pod you get 15-20%, and on a 4 pod installation very very little 5-8% as the drag of the additional pods negates the efficiency of them you still get the manueverability.

    The reason they didn't do pods in other models was HP at the time as well as the hull/mold needed to be redesigned for the pods and a new mold created. As you well know the sale of the company to Brunswick, then the economy put any future boats on hold. The pods need to be mounted completely verticle to perform properly in any boat, if you mount them at the same angle of the V it's a mess. They did that with the 36' ZF boat and it handled really poorly and was not a success, you could either make a very minute turn with minute steering input and it was fine. Or if you steered much more than a 1/4 turn, the entire boat would flop on one side of the V and turn extremely hard, there was no in-between.

    There is no issue with the durability of the pods in a sportfishing environment from what I see. Cabo as well as myself beat the living daylights out of Cabo Uno. Remember, the Cabo guys were the ones who went out there and wrung it out and dialed back the throttle settings and stuff. Without them dialed back, we had the entire gunnel of the boat underwater moving sideways. I ran a 40' Cabo for CMD doing test rides, and it was like a taxi cab, I was never tied to the dock for 5 or 6 days straight and did test ride after test ride. Like I said the factory guys (and myself (non-factory)) put well over 400 hours, very hard hours, wringing 40' Cabo FB hull #1 out without any issues.

    Comparison between the 2 boats. The 40' Cabo express (and FB) posts almost identical speed with either the Zues 600hp cummins, or 800 MANs and shafts, the pods are 1/2 knot faster with 400 less HP. The fuel economy REALLY shines with the pods. Cruise speed at 80% load is 32.5 knots (pods) at 45 GPH, 31.5 knots MANs at 63 GPH. As you can see very large fuel savings. Top speed also around the same 38 knots versus 37.5 knots, I don't remember fuel economy as I never ran them there except for a few minutes during seatrials, and I'm not digging through a bunch of file folders to find them. You can find seatrials on Cabo's site under the heritage series option. Almost all of the Cabo's were tested/seatrialed with the 100 gallons of fuel they shipped from the factory with and no hardtop or tower.....There were a few exceptions, like the first common rail boat I tested with MAN N. America, 2nd set of common rails in the US. They spent a week adjusting fuel/boost curves etc. The numbers I posted above were with towers and full fuel. Also the POD boat is much quieter at cruise, and very very smooth (no vibration). The MAN 800 boat will make the deck hatches chatter......I've run about 200 different Cabo's. I've also run several other brands of Zues, IPS, ZF etc. You can sit there on skyhook and deep drop to your hearts content or fish a deep wreck......they close quarters handling and the backing down on a fish is amazing with them........

    I have a friend that runs a 50' F+S with pods and they fish the boat hard and love them. Jarrett Bay has been building several pod boats as well as several other sportfish companies and they've been holding up just fine. I personally would not hesitate to buy a SF with pods and they handle amazingly, so long as it's a twin engine pod boat.....Once you get into triples or quad, then the additional maintanence of 3-4 engines and drives isn't worth it to me for the minimal fuel economy.

    The problem I've seen with the ZF pods, is if there is an issue somewhere between the two of them. The engine manufacturer and ZF keep punting the ball back and forth in regards to who's responsible for fixing/paying for it. With Zues or IPS, the warranty falls under Cummins or Volvo.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I know the largest IPS right now is 1200 hp. What is the largest Zeus? Is it 715 hp or is it greater? A CAT or Cummins unit?
  6. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    IPS rates the engines differently and what they advertise as 1200hp is it's equivalent in shafts, but not the actual HP, I'm honestly not sure what the HP is offered by ZF and Zues.......google it.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I wasn't aware of that particular boat. I know ZF did it with a 64' much prior to that. Like I said earlier a 4 pod boat has diminishing returns. If you can get enough HP with 2 pods, then it's a worthwhile deal.......3 pods is borderline........and the only thing 4 pods offer is the maneuverability.......
  9. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    This project was show cased the Miami and Ft. Lauderdale Show at that time (2010).

    ZF was not leading any development project with Pods before this time, although they were in partnership with Cummins Mercruiser Diesel (CMD) under the Zeus program led by Mercury Marine's Rick Davis, who has since launched the 557 hp Seven Marine outboard company powered by a General Motors V-8.

    I don't recall seeing a Hatteras 64 SF ZF Pod project, unless they kept it under wraps.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I did google it....but Zeus doesn't show all so had to find Cummins and CAT separately and 715 was the highest I came up with. That seemed odd because it would leave them considerably behind IPS. And I do IPS uses equivalent hp. While I think the CAT number of 715 might be true hp. I also think the idea of using equivalent hp should be accompanied by actual hp but don't see it anywhere.
  11. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Volvo is always giving both numbers, the IPS 1200 have 900 hp. I think the 1200 figure is pretty realistic as our 80-footer with triple IPS/1200 have a top speed of 38 knots.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    It sounds realistic and maybe necessary from a marketing point of view, just a big gimmicky and subjective for me. I do believe the 715 hp on the Zeus is true hp so still a bit short of the IPS 1200 at 900 hp. Just don't know if anyone has coupled larger with a Zeus. Also if you follow some of the information they provide claiming 15% more power and 15% better economy then 900 hp would be more the equivalent of 1035 hp or so. Stating 1200 is claiming 33% more efficiency. I imagine the real answer of the equivalency is influenced by the boat and design and implementation. Some builders have truly done an excellent job of building boats with pods the intended propulsion from the outset and specializing in pods. Those that have tried to just toss pods into existing hulls haven't been very successful for good reason.

    Brings me to a question. How would you feel about a pod in a boat by a builder for whom it was their first pod, but the design by a naval architect who had considerable experience and success with pods? The design being somewhat a new take on an old model but the hull truly redesigned for the pod?

    Do we see the 35 to 60 ft ranges one day becoming predominantly pod? Or do we think pods will remain in the minority?
  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I think pods will be the most common type in boats from 45 to 120 feet pretty soon.
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    So I assume you're predicting a continuing increase in hp as well? Or more triple and quad pods?

    I'll start another thread on the subject.
  15. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I think there will be bigger and also hybrid pods, diesel/electric. Twin and triple, but also single.
  16. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    This isn't a plug, but Mikelson Yachts designed by Tom Fexas has the powerplants located aft under the cockpit, the Zeus drives work very well on that hull. I spoke with a buddy of mine there, and they'd have to put in a quad Zeus drive for their 75'. Can Zeus drives be linked into a single joystick? I can't imagine trying to work four joysticks while docking. Has anyone talked with Cummins to see if anything is on the drawing board for larger hp?
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You could mount the engines/pods under the cockpit and move the fuel tank foward if you have the height for the engine. The other issue is that it's a very salty environment back there. Most of the SF builders put the pods under the cockpit and run carbon fiber jackshafts to where the engines normally sit in a straight inboard installation.

    The problem with Cummins, is they really don't have a higher HP engine to put in front of the larger HP pod.

    There is 1 joystick whether you have 1-4 pods. It is all computer controlled. Also in a 4 pod installation, you typically have two lever controls for fwd/N/rev and throttle and the 2 port motors and 2 stbd motors are tied to 1 control each like a twin installation.
  18. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Thanks J, I was trying to envision having to manipulate 4 different joysticks at once. That would make docking like a three stooges scene. As always, I appreciate your kind feedback.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Imagine having to manipulate the shifters and the throttles on those 5 outboard 37' midnight expresses they used to build in the 1980's. LOL.......

    They also do a similar setup with the controls on the various outboards.....marrying 2 engines to 1 stick and the other 2 to the other stick.....with the Verados and Yamahas......