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Gulf of Mexico oil spill

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Gulfcoasters, May 3, 2010.

  1. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Oil Spill

    I think "airship" is too full of what makes airships what they are. The French and now,and, the UK are Countries in decline, having had their hayday as exploiters of people and places and of course the good ole US of A rescued both or they all be speaking German today. However, I digress, I think Ayan Rand said it best when interviewed on US TV, she was asked how she would "control" oil Co's and others who would pollute etc, her reply was " an educated and caring consumer would bring them in to line through the cash register really quick", Governments just end up restricting business and punishing it via.i taxes which do not go back to the consumer and only result in the consumer paying more.

    So, here is question, was the spill and accident and forgiveness appropriate provided genuine efforts made to minimize damage etc ? failing good actions by BP should the consumer or the Government punish them?
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    In an attempt to reduce the likelihood of a rapid gas release here is something I was sent the other day.

    American scientists have finally developed a car that runs on water!

    Sadly, so far it only works with the water from the Gulf of Mexico.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Airship, first you need to understand one basic principle of American politics: Every 4 to 8 years we generally try very hard to change what the former administration screwed up, and all politicians screw up. The former administration was way pro-industry and anti individual and human rights. I'm half surprised that the CEO's of BP, AIG, Citibank and Bear Sterns weren't appointed to the Supreme Court with Bernie Madoff as Chief Judge.:rolleyes: Winds are changing and heads are rolling, but it will take more than a few months. I almost had an LNG terminal ship parked in my back yard, and good ole Sarah still wants to drill for oil in the Tundra like Alaskans have all thrown a tea party and forgotten the Valdez. I applaude your comment "I find most Americans that I come across in my daily life here to be really great individuals." I'm a little biased, but I also find most citizens great individuals....here and elsewhere. Remember when the last administration tried to change the name of "French fries". Beleve me, most US citizens saw that for just how rediculous it was. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and it doesn't matter if you're talking about the US, UK, France, Russia or anywhere else. So there is no need for invading forces on our shores. Brian is right about volunteerism being a big part of the answer. Americans are famous for answering the call of those in need. We truly feel for the pensioners invested with BP, but they are going to be nailed just as we were by AIG and the rest. Hopefully though, if BP pays a high enough price in money, regulation and criminal penalties history won't repeat itself destroying the futures of another generation. As for those Ausi's, they're an all right lot except that their darned cute accent gives them an advantage at catching the girls.;) The French had the same thing going in the 50's and the Brits in the 60's. Anybody have any idea when toidy-toid & toid street will come back in fashion.:D
  4. C4ENG

    C4ENG Senior Member

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    I just now went through the Gulf. We thought we were as far from the oil as we could be, as far as what was publicized to the public. Once arrived to our destination port I saw this on our bow, which is oil unfortunately. There where no other problems or indications in the ER.

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  5. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Just found this video where Chris Matthews suggest a similar idea for all of the college students this summer..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPppx4nlSP4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPppx4nlSP4&feature=player_embedded#!
  6. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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  7. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Anyone remember Cat Stevens (hung up his guitar in the '80s, became a Muslim, changed his name to Yusuf Islam) and his song "Where Do The Children Play?":

    That takes me back a heck of a long time ago. To an era where we also had Joni Mitchell and others, writing and singing songs about the environment, a whole generation or more ago...?! Generally dismissed as variously hippies, drug-abusers and "huggy-fluffies" (though the term had yet to be invented...).

    brian eiland would like "everyone to pull together and help clear up the mess", in "an effort to clear up the oil-spill", leaving aside at least temporarily, who's responsible or ultimately to blame. And that's fine, except I believe that oil-spills are like icebergs - just 10% of a typical iceberg appears above the waterline, and 90% of the damage to marine creatures and nature caused by oil-spills occurs offshore, out at sea, where there are few witnesses. By all means, protect and clear up the mess and stains from the beaches by whatever means - bring in the National Guard, work-parties from US prisons (as a % of the general population, the USA has more people incarcerated than any other "1st World country"...), and the unemployed. Sanitize the situation - I can just imagine, by about the end of July, someone will announce "see - the beaches are clean, no more tar spots, no more oily birds or other dead marine creatures being washed ashore - mission accomplished?!

    In the autumn of 2010, everyone, from BP, the Obama administration, all those charities involved in rescuing marine creatures, the fishermen, the towns and cities dependent on pristine beaches in order to attract tourists, will all be pleased to know that their endeavours were successful. Everyone will have received (or be in the process of receiving, and partioning probably a great big pie worth several $ billions) in due recompense for their losses and/or efforts. Like I suggested, this event, like all the others will eventually disappear into history. Some will profit, most will not. And 90% of those directly-affected will never be compensated, neither will their descendents (talking about say, the shrimp here. The Gulf shrimp fishermen will obviously demand and receive some compensation "on behalf of all the shrimp that perished and that they will not be able to catch as a result" - F*** the shrimp though...?! But that is justice today, ca. 2010. And if you're not happy with it, emigrate to North Korea... :p
  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Beach vs Marsh Barriers

    Fortunately oil is lighter than water, so for the most part the great majority of it will be found at the surface eventually. This will make the clean up somewhat easier than if the opposite were true.

    Unfortunately they have chosen to use these huge amounts of dispersant's that have broken the 'mass' of oil into so wide spread of smaller particles. I think it would have been easier to corralled and sucked up had they not used the dispersant's.

    There was an interesting point made by someone talking about the use of the limited number of barriers available to cover such huge coastal distances. Specifically they were discussing the Alabama and Florida beaches. The sandy beach areas themselves make a nature barrier to many of the coastal marshes. The oil is much harder to clean from the marsh areas than the beaches, so in allocating barrier materials, the first priority should be to protect the marshes, and let the beaches act as their own barrier. We have machines that can clean the beaches, but none that can clean the marshes.

    Besides its the marshes that represent a greater nurturing area for aquatic life than the beaches.
  9. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Anti-Brit sentiment grows - Americans pouring HP sauce down the gutters...

    The witch-hunt against BP (British Petroleum) by the media and US government continues to grow. US President Obama and the UK's new prime minister David Cameron are due to speak with each other on the telephone sometime today Saturday about the oil-spill etc...?!

    The gullibility of the average American (to include those contributing to this discussion) never ceases to amaze me. As soon as any situation (but most recently the BP oil-spill) begins to be described as one involving "national interests" and/or "foreign powers", the stubborn (if often misguided) patriotic instincts reign supreme, and all sense goes "out the window" or perfectly-drinkable French wine gets poured down the gutter - can you imagine if instead of BP, it was a French oil comapany like TOTAL involved...?! :eek:

    Noone, the media, the US government etc. apparently cares to investigate in any more detail the roles of BP's sub-contractors in this whole affair:

    1) TRANSOCEAN, the owners and operators of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig sub-contracted to BP and the origin of the whole saga. A company incorporated in Switzerland, yet apparently managed on a day-to-day basis from officers of the company based usually in the USA...

    2) HALLIBURTON, the manufacturer/supplier of the "blow-out preventer" which ostensibly failed and lead to the current oil-spill etc. According to this NY Times report, Halliburton was already intending to move their main corporate HQ to Dubai...?! "Anti-American" contributors to this discussion may well recall that US Vice-President Dick Cheney headed Halliburton from 1995-2000...

    BP is undoubtedly primarily-responsible and should be reasonably held accountable. Personally-speaking, I would not be against some form of "temporary confiscation" against their worldwide assets (or just the dividends BP has already announced recently) by a US court pending a resolution of the oil-spill (whether or not that might take a decade to realise). Investors in any company including BP have "to get real and realise that their investment decicions have repercussions." UK pension funds overall may well depend on dividends on their BP investments for 20-25% of payouts to pension-holders. The fact is, these pension payments are destined to an extremely small (growing smaller by the day), and minority of UK pensioners. Priviledged they may be, but after all, no cause for casus belli and excuse for an invasion of the USA by the UK and (mainly French) supporters to regain Louisiana...?!

    So, basically, once (and until) the American contributors to this discussion finally assume their own responsibilities and start questionning why the "US" companies such as Transocean and Halliburton appear to be "getting away with it" without being put under the same scrutiny and/or spot-light as BP, is properly addressed, this discussion is merely one of "Brit-bashing" and/or a prelude to the USAF operating Predator drones in EU skies. Perhaps targeting airship in the near-future (and no, I don't intend to marry anytime soon, therefore no marriage procession, nobody firing off their AK-47s into the sky, and somehow persuading the pilots remotely-flying these drones to launch their missile (almost always missing their primary targets), but usually hitting the women and children...?! Good on'ya as the Aussies say, on behalf of us all. :rolleyes:
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You've already amply shown your bias, prejudice and sabre rattling Airship as well as your anti-American sentiment. Unfortunately for you, the rest of the world realized a long time ago that we are friends who happened to have a lousy leader for a while. You're living in the past and your words are not worth consideration. Trying to shift liability away from BP by throwing in the sub-contractors is nothing more than a distraction. In the end liability will be apportioned, but the losers will still be the people who depend on those waters for their livelihood, the wildlife and the environment. BP headed this thing. It's their mess. They created it and it is theirs to stop. The buck stops at the top.
  11. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    BP ceased being British Petroleum when they merged with Amoco - the American Oil Company - to form BP Amoco, then shortened their name to simply BP.

    There is no overinflated nationalism or xenophobia to this mess. It's an oil spill, and the most responsible parties deserve both the most responsibility and the most blame. As news comes out, it turns out that BP was calling the shots on the rig far more than they let on to begin with. It also turns out that TransOcean, Anadarko, and Halliburton are filing tremendous insurance claims, but are sheltered from liability by a combination of outdated legislation. To read how this situation is being addressed, and how these companies will be brought to task, read http://transportation.house.gov/News/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=1247

    In the meantime, casting wild and baseless accusations about some nefarious hatred and plot that simply doesn't exist is in poor form at best. I suggest you invest in aluminum, you're going to need it for making your tin foil hat.
  12. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Dear Seafarer,

    I can only assume that you were addressing NYCAP123, and can only thank you for your efforts and very illuminating and informative link explaining how some of the companies involved behind the cover of "BP"'s travails have been behaving...? That Transocean have recently been trying to use statutes dating from 1851 in order to limit their own liabilities...?! :(

    NYCAP123, yes, I am biased, though hopefully not completely prejudiced. Though I must admit to resorting to a bit of "sabre-rattling" as you've described it. And to what end? Instead of encouraging you to look at current events with an "unbiased" eye, you've simply dug yourself deeper into the "everyone's against the USA camp"...? You haven't even bothered to address any of my arguments concerning BP's sub-contractors, preferring your own ostrich-like "head-in-the-sand" approach... :confused:

    And get real please:
    Yeah, the people "who depend on the Gulf" are already receiving some compensations, and all going well, can hope to receive perhaps sometimes huge disbursements in the future after due process- if they've employed the services of sufficiently "good lawyers". But the wildlife and "environment" involved don't have lawyers and will never be truly compensated (even if that were possible).

    So spare me (and others), any subterfuge of being unjustly beseiged by "anti-American" sentiments, climb out of your hole and defend your own arguments. At least, do it for the wildlife and environment...?! :)
  13. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Fareed's Take: Has The Media Gone Crazy?

    It's the worst oil spill in US history and the media seems to want one thing from Obama: to see him get mad. In "Fareed's Take" this week, Fareed gets mad -- at the media's absurd demand that the President "show some emotion" instead of dealing with the many weighty issues on his plate.

    Here is an intelligent viewpoint on the matter:
    http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/fareed.zakaria.gps/
  14. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Bummer, brian, I beieve that I was coming up with something really interesting, original and responsible in response - and then I discovered I'd run out of Scotch...:eek:
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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  16. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    You assume incorrectly. It is your vile generalizations and accusatory attitude I find most unsavory and ill-expressed.
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    This might explain things a bit, he might have switched to Pastis which force all those who consume it to become seriously patriotic till the effects wear off which if a lot is consumed might be years :D
  18. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Oil spill

    Well, will interesting going forward if we treat all accidents the same way as BP is currently being treated for an accident, it would seem that logic has deserted the masses in order to satisfy their own inability to solve the problem, at least they get their own 15 mins of fame.

    If all accidents result in boycotts and threats to prevent one from using the rights and laws currently in effect to defend themselves , then you have no basis for a safe and workable society. Dictatorships arise form such ashes.
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Our constitution and our laws are considered "living documents". In other words, they will change as the need arises (although that change is not easily brought about). Today's world and the amount of damage it is capable of inflicting could never have been imagined even 50 years ago. Someone will have to pay for this disaster. Should it be the company that profited from the project and caused the problem, their investors who have enjoyed their profits, the worldwide consumers who buy their product or the taxpayers of one country who were assured by this company that this could never happen? BTW, the evidence I've heard suggest that BP ignored warnings and took short cuts in order to maximize profits and that is what caused this. Accident is such a benign term. The results indicate reckless behavior.