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Generator Soot on Yacht Hulls...

Discussion in 'Generators' started by YachtForums, Jun 4, 2014.

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  1. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    This is a call-out to YF's captains and engineers. I've tried every keyword combination I can think of in Google Images, but I haven't been able to find a good pic of a nasty problem. Does anyone have a similar picture on a simcard somewhere, hopefully after an extended cruise before wash down?

    Thanks in advance!

    Attached Files:

  2. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Carl- I just sent you one from my phone. I don't have any recent ones, since Marmot has cleared up all of my soot issues in the past 12 months!

    http://www.eneryacht.com

    ***
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  3. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Thanks Ken, check's in the mail!

    Seriously though, I sincerely appreciate the endorsement. Just for the record though, I licensed the technology and trademark SeaClean to DeAngelo Marine Exhaust last year for production and marketing. I still do development and commissioning of new installations and work very closely with DME to make sure a system is matched precisely for the boat and works properly.
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    This is two weeks of non stop running in the exuma on our port northern light 20. Stbd is about the same. Not too bad considering it s been running for two weeks.

    Attached Files:

  5. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Hmmmm, if those generators are as absolutely perfect as the day they came out of the factory test cell they still spewed out about 5 pound of soot and crud each in that two weeks.

    Now figure in the cost of removing the stains from the paint and the reduction in paint life plus the cost to repaint. Not only does it look bad and smell bad, it can get really expensive, even when the generator is a fancy new electronic common rail marvel.

    If the fuel you are burning was loaded outside of the US and was called "marine diesel" on the bunker ticket, you probably spat out about twice as much crud, maybe more. "Low sulfur marine diesel" MDO or DMA might contain 1500ppm or more sulfur and that will really create some soot and staining.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Those gensets have about 7000 hours, fuel was taken in Miami before departure.

    Cost of removing the soot? Just a few minutes, no big deal. Paint not an issue, on a small boat it s gel coat... Yeah it woudl be nice to keep the hull side cleaner but not going to loose sleep over it,
  7. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Did you check YF?

    You might like the last entry.


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  8. Berean

    Berean Senior Member

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    Marmot, Is that to say higher sulphur containing fuels generate even more uncombusted fuel/fuel constituents leading to more particulates and therefore more soot? I wonder because all my diesels are over 30 years old and don't like the low suffer stuff (Lehman 120s X 2; DD 671TIs X 2.). ( Yeah yeah I know that the sulfur is not a lubricant per se, but low sulfur fuels indirectly impair lubricity that is not good for the old motors). I wonder what gonna happen if and when the EPA mandates low sulfur diesel oil for the mariners. Hopefully there will be some kind of additive or some such that will help to protect the older power plants?

    Anyway, sorry to meander off topic...
  9. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Wow! I must have some soot between my ears! Thank you OP!!! :)
  10. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Yes, unfortunately that is the case.

    It is also one of the reasons aside from SOx reduction for removing sulfur from fuels.
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That's why many engines perform better with lubricating additives in the diesel fuel.
  12. Berean

    Berean Senior Member

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    Yeah I am aware of these products but have not used to date. I don't know much about them. Guess I better get to school before Uncle Sam de-sulfurs all the off-road diesel fuel.
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Diesel fuel sold since about 2005 meets the lubricity standard described in ASTM D 975. Those fuels provides the lubricity necessary for engine operation, performance and reliability per the engine manufacturer's warranty requirements.

    Reference CAT publication: SEBU6251 Distillate Diesel Fuel page 44

    MTU document: A001061/35E 04/2012 Fuels page 34
    Approved diesel fuels for MTU engines
    Commercially available diesel fuels meeting the following specifications are approved for use: Distillate fuels DIN EN 590 and ASTM D975


    No aftermarket lubricity additive is required to obtain rated performance.

    Fuel purchasers are free to spend money on whatever mouse milk or snake oil makes them feel good.
  14. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

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    Whatever bs they put in print, many older diesels have had problems with the new fuel. New engines are built with this fuel in mind and work fine on it, but many older diesels have injection pump issues, and the vast majority showed signs of lack of lubrication in fuel lubed areas. Some people claim that it isn't lack of lubrication, as much as loose tolerances due to less of the larger sulfer molecules working as a buffer. I don't know the reason, but it is true that the new fuels have caused issues with older diesels. Some injection pumps don't seem as effected, but some don't tolerate new fuels at all without additives.
  15. praetorian47

    praetorian47 Senior Member

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    I have had problems like this also. I use sea-shield exhaust guard and as long as I rinse the area off daily while in use, I'm good all season. I take the dinghy and run a cloth over the area with soap and water.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Marmot.

    Aren't those paragraphs applicable to engines manufactured within the same time period? Do you believe the older engines are always fine with the newer fuel and no additives?

    Would you classify ValvTech and comparable quality fuels as mouse milk or snake oil?

    Just asking your opinion. And, incidentally, your product looks very impressive to me. Something very much needed.
  17. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  18. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Just a little sooted up

    Two beautiful large yachts with a little soot problem.

    One can at least lay down her mast in order to make the cleaning job easier for the deckies. And the other one can heel to the other side to hide the problem (for taking a picture) :D.

    Good old times, when pollution was no issue and deckies much cheaper to hire.

    I vote for dry exhaust stacks. But placing the mast in the middle of them does not seem to be a very good idea.

    Attached Files:

  19. Jorge Lang

    Jorge Lang Senior Member

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    A dry stack would still have the same issue regarding soot. You are now spraying it all over the lounge chairs and the bar instead of the side of the hull, not to mention the humming noise of the gens on the top deck.
  20. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Waterline exhausts or dry stacks

    Many larger yachts have the main engine exhausts at or just below the waterline and the generator exhausts at the top of the mast. On some of them, the gen exhausts can be switched from the top of the mast to the waterline.

    I honestly do not have the optimum solution for the perfect position of those exhaust outlets. But I believe, modern Tier III generators with external exhaust cleaning and filtering together with some perfectly sized and routed exhausts to the top of the mast will minimize soot on the white towels on the sun deck.

    With some wind tunnel testing for the aerodynamics of the superstructure and addition of some spoilers or special design of the exhaust gas outlets and its material (for the propper EGT), the soot contermination of the deck area could be minimized, at least with the boat on the go.

    At calm winds with the boat on the hook, you got a point, only very clean exhaust gases will help in this situation. You should see the aft deck of larger cargo vessels running on HFO 500 and above. Thats what I call a soot covered deck :eek:.