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Freon replacement

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by Capt Fred, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. Capt Fred

    Capt Fred Senior Member

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    My cockpit freezer is running continously and not getting cold. It will not freeze water. The sight glass appears to be empty. It is a Cruiser compressor using R12. Has anyone tried to recharge an old system with one of the Freon replacement gases with any success? What proceed did you use. Was it as simple as just adding a can of something like Freeze 12?
  2. FIQ

    FIQ Member

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    R134a was supposed to be a drop in and it worked. Kinda. I think that you will notice that your compressor runs longer that it did with the 12.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Not a real drop in. You have to change out the oil.
    If your certain it's really a R12 unit, call a tech out and have it recharged.

    R12 is not illegal. Just no new products can have it.
    And not for the DIYr any more.

    Green folk are hoping that R12 will be a memory by 2020. Their hoping R22 will be gone by 2025 also.
    They will be proven wrong, IMHO.
  4. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I just had my aft stateroom replaced with a new Dometic. I can’t remember the number of the new Freon. But the AC guy told me you could flush the lines of the old R22 unit and put in the new Freon and the unit would work but the performance would decline by 17%.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    R417A is the temp new Freon for R22 systems. Same oil.
    Efficiency is lower. Example, a R22-16Kbtu split system will now compare to the same hardware; a R417A-15Kbtu system.
    No new R22 system sales are allowed. R22 has not been outlawed either.
    Servicing R22 systems are still SSDD. I have found some R22-R417A compressors are getting harder to find or price inflated (in the states).

    R410 will probably settle into the Standard product for the future and uses a different oil with design changes in the compressors and orifices.
  6. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Remember to catch that evacuating R22 so it doesn't get into the atmosphere....
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Yes, These and ALL gasses must now be re-claimed. Another reason I stated to call a tech (#3). The DIYr has also been ruled out.
  8. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I looked up the paperwork for the new aft stateroom AC. The new Dometic unit is R410A.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    There ya go; The latest, per the green people; the greatest to have.
    The compressor and orifices are designed for R410. There was never another gas option offered or available in this hardware design. There is no other gas option for this hardware.
    R410 replaces nothing already installed.
    R410 is the latest safe gas to use, per the green people. The compressor runs a lil hotter, higher pressure and the rotary design may sound different (louder) from what were used to.
    On most of the Dometic all-in ones, there is a compressor sound shield option if needed.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I manage a 2007 boat with R417 (factory charged in self contained (all in one) units, 6 of them to be exact. They never cooled as well as R22 and the yacht had 6 units, temps out of the vent within a foot or few feet of the unit were around 56F. The owner wanted it cooler, so we took all of the 417 out and put R 22 in around 5 years back.....output temps now registered a full 10F cooler at the same vents throughout the boat. We did end up replacing one unit a few years ago and another this year with a new R410 unit, it has the turbo blower and moves a lot more air AND the temperature out of the vent is 34F, it kicks ass compared to the R22 unit it replaced.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    This would all make sense. R417 systems are back gradable to R22 (same oil).
    R410 systems require whole system change outs. The newer split cap (turbo) fans are a blast.
  12. Capt Fred

    Capt Fred Senior Member

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    My unit is definitely an R12 unit, I found a replacement Freon, Freeze 12, got it ordered. Supposed to be compatible with R12, evacuation not required. Will give it a try.
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Freeze 12 has taken off in a variety of directions. The true "Freeze 12" product was designed as a substitute and a mixture of R134a and R142. The 142 was to allow the use as an R12 replacement since R12 is mineral oil based and R134a is PAG so not compatible. Now there are all sorts of other variations such as Redtek's 12a and Johnsen's Freeze 12. I know nothing about any of them.
  14. Captain Zemo

    Captain Zemo Senior Member

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    If your unit is low on charge you will also need to check for leaks. Did you notice any abnormal noise prior to losing efficiency? Did you happen to see if the evaporator is freezing up, or any other parts of the system? Was this system installed prior to the mid-1990s? I believe those R12 systems were discontinued around 1995. Good luck with the freeze 12 it's worth a try.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I'm not sure how well that's going to work. Looking forward to a report on that clone 22.
    I still have real R12 in my inventory. Some old techs usally keep some hidden somewhere. But its not for direct sale.
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Everywhere I read, the old R12 must be recovered before the new F22 can be installed.
    I'm not reading good long term results either. Anybody mention a different adapter fitting requirement?

    If you like your freezer, why not call out a real tech?
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    To be honest, if it's R12, it's REALLY old and if the sight glass all of a sudden shows no Freon/oil at all, it most likely sprung a big leak and due to age it's time to replace it. I am of the type of just calling a real tech.
  18. Capt Fred

    Capt Fred Senior Member

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    It is a Cruisair unit, probably original, boat is 1987 and tag on unit states R12, The unit was used last May on a long trip but noted was running a lot, since then unit got worst. Symptomatic of a leak. The unit has Schrader valves installed. So for 30 bucks I can give it a try and see how bad the leak is and location.
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    If your hard to try this, Look on e-bay and get a cheap freon sniffer to help find leaks.
  20. Capt Fred

    Capt Fred Senior Member

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    Great idea, got one ordered! Will post some results in about a week.