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FOUND! Roamer 46

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Roamer Yacht' started by q240z, Dec 3, 2007.

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  1. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    I've been following your posts and thought you might be interested in hearing my story about my 1961 62ft Van lent Feadship ...

    I live in London where I work as a music publisher. After many years owning and restoring wooden sailing yachts of various types and sizes (ranging from a 12ft American catboat built in 1900, a 25ft 1930 estuary motor-cruiser, a 1950's BB11, a 34ft 1959 sloop, a 26ft 1938 ChrisCraft and, latterly, Amokura a 51ft yawl built in 1938) I decided that my next project would bea small classic motor-yacht that my family could enjoy and use without a full-time crew .

    Eventually, I settled on Alto Volante pka as "Tiky", a 62ft Feadship, built in 1961 by van Lent, and which I found lying in very poor condition in
    Pollenca, in north Majorca. Tiky is an interesting boat - she was built with
    a typical Northern European displacement hull with a flared bow and a
    distinctive cruiser stern, but with a superstructure based on 1950's
    planing ChrisCraft design - presumably with a view to selling her to the
    USA, which was the reason for the formation of the Feadship federation of
    Van Lent and de Vries yards, in the early '50s.

    When I first saw the boat she was advertised at over $300,000 and was
    looking very nice with topsides freshly painted and her brightwork
    glistening in the Spanish spring sunshine. I had a hull survey done and
    went on sea trials, both of which revealed a number of issues - most
    obviously that she had had virtually no maintenance for many years, was in
    a very poor condition and would need a lot of work , so I put in an offer
    of $80K which, to my surprise was accepted. I thought I had done a very good deal but how little did I know.....

    It was obvious that some work would be needed on the 1961 V8 MAN engines and Renk gearboxes but it was only after I had spent over $15,000 on parts that the engineer told me one engine was in a very poor condition and that the Renk box on the other engine was totally seized. The estimate for rebuilding the engines and boxes was at least another $60K. I decided to replace both engines and settled on rebuilt low-revving Gardner 6LXB engines (a snip at $18,000 each!) and which I figured were more in keeping with the age of the boat than more modern designs such as, say, Caterpillars, ...Although the Gardners more or less dropped in place, because of alignment problems, we had to fit massively heavy flexible drives mounted on thrust assembly blocks, bolted to the engine beds - this meant major surgery and new s/s shafts! . While we were about it we stripped out all the engine-room insulation, plumbing and wiring, together with tons of redundant and rusty equipment .

    We then started on the hull which had a number of "doublers" - we left some
    of them them in situ, replaced others and fitted a couple more, rebuilt the shaft swells and replaced a 6ft section of rusted bow, below the w/l in the way of the
    chain locker. We de-rusted , treated and painted the interior, and replaced
    all the ER insulation with heavy duty silverfoil faced sound insulation

    I was then informed that the new teak deck had been laid on the original
    teak deck, (without attending to the rusted structure beneath) and was
    separating from the old teak. Accordingly, it all had to be removed. In
    fact, the new teak was adhering so badly to the old teak that it came off
    easily in sheets. The old teak, which was very badly worn, had brass screws
    every thorough every frame, which all had to be removed - a very long and
    tedious job - revealing a totally rusted-through steel sub-deck. The deck
    structure only had steel plate laid on top of the beams around the outer
    edges of the side-decks and on the center line, so once we attended to
    the steel, replacing much of it and treating/painting the entire structure,
    we then laid 12mm marine ply sheets on to the steel, using a mastic with
    only a few fastenings in strategic points, fitted from underneath through
    the steel beams into the ply. We then epoxied the ply, which over-lapped
    the steel side-plates (forming a "waterway" scupper of about 6" x 3/4" all
    around the deck with drains going below the W/L), and a teak edging. We
    then applied more mastic on to the ply, then laid 15mm teak with as few
    fastenings as possible, covering both the ply and the teak edging so as to
    protect the ply edges and hide them from view. We then recaulked the seams
    with Sikalfex.

    We stripped out literally dozens of old rusted pumps, heaters and aircon
    plants, together with miles of old wiring and steel water and heating
    piping. We fitted new s/s hatches on the foredeck, completely rebuilt the
    18KVA generator, serviced the windlass and fitted new stabilizers and
    controls, anchor chain, bowthruster and installed some basic engine-room
    wiring and engine-start batteries. We then rebuilt the saloon roof which had
    been very lightly built and was sagging at the center. While doing so, so we
    fitted a "soft hatch" in the saloon roof so the engines come out of the
    ship, without major surgery, should the need ever arise. I was then told that the preparation for the the relatively recent paint job had not been properly done and that sections of fairing had to be removed, so off it all came.

    I then took a deep breath and removed the ugly chicken-coop of a pilothouse
    that had been added in the 1980's. (Tiky would look lovely with the original
    open helm but I'm not sure that is the best/most practical solution for a
    61ft displacement yacht to be used as a family boat in the Med, or even if
    it is the most aesthetically pleasing, so I am currently trying to figure
    out what design of PH to fit). In any event removing this inapproriate and
    ugly structure totally transformed the look of the ship, confirming my
    original view that all the work and expense involved in her restoration
    would be worthwhile.

    However, getting the work done in Majorca - using a combination of the
    local yard staff and a variety of itinerant and, in the main, incompetent
    and in some cases di s honest local labour - was a very slow, frustrating
    and expensive process. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that doing the
    refit in Spain by remote control was an impossible task. Accordingly, as
    soon as she was ready to move under her own power, she went to La Ciotat nr Marseilles, where we had the hull sand-blasted and primed, but the costs at la Ciotat were eye-wateringly high so I took another deep breath and hired a delivery crew to take her through the French canals and across the Channel to Ipswich. From there, she went by road to Wroxham in Norfolk , where she is now lying ashore, at "Landamores", a well-known family owned & operated boatyard, which builds Oyster Yachts and is known for the quality of its workmanship. Other than the engine room, her interior is now completely gutted and waiting for work to begin later this month (at a price that will be approx 50% of the rates quoted in France & Spain).




    work remaining to be done

    * rebuild entire interior in light oak (I am enlarging and changing
    the layout of owners cabin (from 2 single V berths to a centrally-fitted
    double bed in an enlarged cabin, at the expense of the single cabin on
    stbd side , which was in any event a rather useless single cabin) so we'll
    now have 2 decent sized double cabins instead of 3 mediocre ones + 2 heads
    aft, with 2 crew/guest berth + heads up forward

    * rewire & re-plumbing throughout

    * refurb exterior woodwork

    * build new Pilot-house

    * some more hull plating

    * repaint

    * much else.....!

    So, just to reassure you, you're not the only "nutter" restoring an old metal boat - having replaced just about everything, I realize that what I bought was basically a name plate and a piece of history but I'm certain that all the work, time, expense and frustration will be justified in the end.

    best
    David

    Attached Files:

  2. Jim Reed

    Jim Reed Member

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    Location:
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    WOW, SHE'S BEAUTIFUL. SEND MORE PICTURES. DO YOU KNOW THE MOODY BLUES? Jim (Copy Cat).
  3. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    zsedr
    The nasty winter we've been having in the Mid-Atlantic area has given me lots of time to get some head-scratchin' in about what's coming next and how best to get 'er done.

    First order of business once the weather gets favorable is to make the hatch in the salon roof disappear. I've been prepping braces and mahogany lumber to scarf the frames back together and have tons of marine ply and fiberglass fixin's, so it's just a matter of getting favorable weather. Of course, we'll have to move appliances in before the roof gets sealed up for good. All in due time...

    The missus and I are still debating best approaches for the galley, but it's to the point where general concepts are agreed upon. She's finally accepted the fact that I'm the engineer and she's the designer, which means she's the "boss" but I have god-mode as an option when push comes to shove.

    Fortunately, there's been no pushing or shoving...yet.

    Anyway, we've pretty much wrapped up the design phase for the aft stateroom. Here's what we have in mind:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
  4. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Location:
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    Nice

    If you want to do big tube shower, Spartan Industries makes them for yachts.. sizes vary.
  5. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    I couldn't find Spartan Industries via google. Then again, the missus has been looking forward to a steam shower. An Ariel 902a will just fit in the space provided in the drawing. I just noticed the price on these has dropped again. They're down to $950 at http://www.steamshowersinc.com/shopexd.asp?id=13&head=2

    That's crazy cheap. A Home Cheapo walled shower enclosure with no valves or fittings will run $400~$500...
  6. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    ?

    Maybe I made mistake or they are out of business, but I think not.. I will look.
    The only thing about much house stuff is quality is often lower than marine.. depends.
  7. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Spartech is the name.

    http://www.spartech.com/marine.html

    My error.. here it is Spartech.. qualtiy is high.. supply most of the sliding shower tubes to the marine industry. Site pages appear down.... ?
  8. Oneiros

    Oneiros Member

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    Dec 17, 2006
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    Location:
    lulea Sweden the land of the midnightsun
    Yes but not always my carbin floor is for house but it works nice teak 7mm click floor
  9. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Ok

    If it is good then it is good.
  10. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    I'm with Oneiros on this one...good is good. Calling it marine grade, if that's the only difference, doesn't justify the pricetag bump.

    That reminds me of a certain seacock maker who charges $145 for a 1' section of 1/4" round cast acrylic for their strainers. Go online, though, and you can find the identical product (but without their fancy sticker on it) for $16/ft.

    I searched spartech's product list, but can't find finished shower enclosures. Either way, the missus wants a steam shower and I can't think of an engineering reason why it can't be done...so that's what she's gonna get. ;-)
  11. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    'ohcandyman" needs your help!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by homer1958
    I would go to the Roamer site and look up the fellow who has the 46 Roamer he is re-doing.. it has some 8500 visitors on the thread.. he also has a 52 Connie. It is my understandingg the 52 is the best one because the 57 has a greater tendency to "Hog".


    thanks for your reply. Actually, I wasn't considering the 57' Connie, rather the 50' and the 52'. I will go to the roamer site. Thanks again
  12. Shangri-La

    Shangri-La Senior Member

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  13. Oneiros

    Oneiros Member

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    Marine product

    Up here in northern Sweden where we have brackish water, a salt content of a few thousand, it is not as tough environment in which the cars in the southern part of Sweden, where the salt content in the air can be several percent
  14. mrfixitenator

    mrfixitenator New Member

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    Omg!!!

    Please let the man finish what he started. Hopefully Q240Z, you haven't been driven away like I, myself and others have been in the past from hijacked threads due to someone getting a bug up their you know what and trying to prove that they have the "better idea". I was enjoying the story of the refit all the way up to this page. I hope you choose to continue.

    Looks beautiful, keeps up the good work,

    Sean
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Other than Post 111 from a member who hasn't been here for a while there doesn't seem to have been any major transgression of the thread subject even showers and sea strainers are all part of a refit as big as the one that Q240Z has undertaken.

    I don't see where you get the impression someone has an **** insect infestation.
  16. mrfixitenator

    mrfixitenator New Member

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    onward !!!

    Looking forward to more progress info q240z
  17. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Hi
    a thought on your aft cabin design. Berths, and in particular double berths, dont need to be full width at the foot. Have you considered rounding off the forward corners so as to follow the curve of the head compartment? even better, why not make the berth taper at the forward end - it doesn't change the size of the bed (or the comfort of those using it) and because you then see more floor space, it makes the whole cabin look bigger and less cramped, especially between the foot and the head door. You can go one further by having a recess at floor level, all around the bed, which makes a dramatic difference to the overall look of the cabin
    best
    david

    Attached Files:

  18. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Thanks, Sean.

    I've been letting the Roamer lie fallow while cracking out the maintenance on my Connie. I should be able to return to the Roamer by July or so.

    David, I see what you mean about the bed. But the fuel tank is rectangular and just happens to have the same perimeter dimensions as a standard queen-size mattress. Lining up the pros on one side and the cons on the other, I think it would ultimately come down to a coin toss as to which approach is best. Either way, the tank is already installed so the point is moot.

    Why didn't you make that suggestion back in '08, before I had the tank fabricated??? lol :p
  19. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    amending the tank won't be difficult - a competant fabricator could do it in situ in a couple of hours and for the loss of a gallon or 2 of fuel you'd have a vastly improved aft cabin.

    On the subject of Connies, have you seen the new Pilot House designs for my 1960 62ft Feadship that were rebulididng from keel up...the original 1960 "open-helm" (ie no PH) design was modelled on a Connie and I'm trying to build a PH that is in keeping with and sympatheic to her origins yet look fresh and timeless . Check out my post "Pilothouse Design For Vintage 1960 FEADSHIP 2
    best
    david
  20. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Actually, David, it would be an enormous job because the tank is fitted to a cradle. Modifying the tank would mean also modifying the cradle. The interior of the boat has also been barrier coated, so then there'd be more epoxy work after the welding was done. And cutting off part of this brand new tank to gain a meaningful amount of not particularly useful interior space in what is essentially a walkway around a bed would mean the loss of roughly 50 gallons of fuel capacity, according to the volume calculator that's built in to google sketchup. Then there are the floors, which are already built around the rectangular cradle/tank assembly...

    Like I said, there are pros and cons. But at this stage of the resto, I wouldn't even consider going back and tearing into work that's been done to a perfectly satisfactory result. "Vastly improved," like beauty, is perhaps in the eye of the beholder.
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