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FOUND! Roamer 46

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Roamer Yacht' started by q240z, Dec 3, 2007.

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  1. chriswufgator

    chriswufgator Member

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    You've kinda got it backwards. It's a forward compatibility problem, not a reverse one.

    By govt. mandate, diesels built after January 2007 are designed specifically to run on LSD or ULSD. Most diesel fuel sold in the US has already been LSD for awhile, which is Sulfur<500ppm. ULSD is Sulfur<15ppm or less.

    Anyway, newer diesels (post '07) are required to carry pollution control equipment and are required to have different valve and fuel rail designs, to lower their emissions. In these engines, running anything but LSD or ULSD will cause damage.

    However, you can certainly run a pre-ULSD mandate diesel on LSD or ULSD with no problems. Just make sure you change your fuel filters when you switch over, since ULSD has detergents in it and any leftover deposits from the old fuel will start coming loose.

    So in a nutshell: Old fuel will damage the new engines, but new fuel won't damage the old engines.
  2. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Well, somebody needs to go tell that to the good people at boatdiesel.com, because there are plenty of threads over there about ULSD not providing the lubricity the older engines require. Kinda like back in the day when they switched from leaded gas to unleaded and there were concerns about the old engines burning up their valve guides. Then again, I don't know if that turned out to be just an old wives's tale or not...

    **** the internet. There's too much information! lol
  3. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    It turns out that d_a_m_n is a bad word here. lol
  4. chriswufgator

    chriswufgator Member

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    I have seen people on the internet ranting and raving about it for awhile, and can say with absolute certainty that it is a steaming load of BS.

    The new fuel only represents a chemical difference of Sulfur<500ppm to Sulfur<15ppm. The original concentration of less than 500ppm was already so small that it is logically impossible that it could have had any significant lubricating properties at all at those levels, and even more impossible that the S<500ppm to S<15ppm change could have some mysterious engine-killing effect.

    Are you aware of how small an amount you are talking about with ppm calculations? A part-per-million is equal to less than one single drop of water out of a pool of 50 litres. So think of having something like twenty-five 2-litre bottles of Coke lined up, and then open just one of them and take out just a single drop of liquid, and that's a good illustration of the scale of the quantities we are dealing with here.

    It is a stretch to think that these amounts of ANYTHING, let alone sulfur, could have any lubricating effect on hundreds of pounds of moving iron. Even if that was a concern, diesel has lubricants added to it by the manufacturers anyway.

    The problems people are having don't relate at all to the sulfur content. Rather, the new fuel is mandated to contain detergents, very much like gasoline. So, what happens is that switching fuel to the new composition provides a shock to the engine because the new blend with detergents built-in starts knocking all the years of built-up crud loose. Those deposits can then cause issues that need to be addressed, usually with the fuel system and valves.

    But that's all that is happening....the fuel itself is not damaging the engines.
  5. chriswufgator

    chriswufgator Member

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    And you are right about the switch to unleaded gas from leaded. That would burn up the valve seats, because engines designed for leaded fuel came with soft valve seats and this setup didn't work so well with unleaded. Even then, correcting the issue was a simple $200 fix for replacing the valve seats with modern ones the next time you needed a valve job.

    However, that isn't an issue here, because sulphur has NOWHERE NEAR the lubricating properties of lead. Lead has some of the best lubricating properties of any element, and so played a much larger role in gasoline than sulphur ever did in diesel. In addition, lead was added to gasoline in much larger quantities than sulphur was ever found in diesel.

    It's apples and oranges.
  6. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    I appreciate your opinion and it's certainly consistent with EPA-endorsed clean-diesel.org, which says nobody needs to worry. Then again, EPA also endorses E10, E15, and E20 gasoline, though I have read enough sob stories from gas boat owners who had to rip out their fuel tanks this year to know that YMMV.

    If the experts at clean-diesel are only willing to say that " ULSD fuel is expected to perform as well as" earlier fuels (underline added), it means they really don't know for sure. In any case, I'm not quite prepared to dismiss the folks on boatdiesel who report suddenly having to replace and repair engines with dropped valve heads.

    Time will tell...
  7. chriswufgator

    chriswufgator Member

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    Ya, the Ethanol thing has been a complete friggin' disaster. The govt. screwed up big time on that one.

    They designed the fuel based on automotive needs. It is ok there, because cars all have metal fuel tanks. They then mandated it for use at marinas, but totally failed to consider the fact that tons of boats have fiberglass fuel tanks, and that ethanol is a solvent that breaks down the epoxies used to hold the tanks together.

    A real "doh" moment there.

    I really think that ULSD is a totally different story, though. I would bet that everyone having problems could probably tie it back to gunk deposits in one way or the other.
  8. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Christmas Day 2007

    The missus and I are deep into an 11-day working vacation in which the mission is to 1) get all of the cr4p off the boat, b) crane out the SeaMaster 534TTi engines (534ci Ford industrial engines with two turbos and intercooling), gas genset (Kohler 10kw), original refrigerator, and R12 AC unit, and 3) shrinkwrap this beast before winter gets serious.

    Getting rid of the AC ducting does wonders for improving mobility in the ER.

    [​IMG]

    The port engine is now held in place only by gravity.

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    See those two pumps right next to the muffler? Well, when I started this project, you couldn't see any of the three because of all the AC ducting. There's a ton of space in there now. The plywood under both battery banks was rotten and will come out when I do the engine room. The R12 AC air handler is rotten through. How many times I gotta tell ya: galvanized does NOT belong in an engine room.

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    The salon headliner is down. The hatch is ready to fly out after I remove the 50 carraige bolts holding it in.

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    Old mattresses suck. So does the stuck steering shaft. Project for another day.

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    109th reason to not sleep around: You might get your a$$ stung.

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    OK, the aft deck was clean last week. Now it's full of junk again. OK, well, not all junk. Check out the solid mahogany drawers that somebody painted white over. You know...to brighten things up.

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    This was the first attempt to degunk the helm station. The wheel is off for better access to the gears when I get around to it. I'm gonna have a huge sack of bits to be rechromed. A cordless drill on the engine-end of the cables tell me that the tachs work!

    [​IMG]

    For variety's sake, the missus decided to work at stripping the helm station. This will take time. Back to the engine room tomorrow.

    [​IMG]
  9. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    For comparison's sake, here's what it looked like in as-found condition:

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  10. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    She looks better already! As I predicted in a previous posting, a cleaning and de-junking would make a world of difference. Looks like you have a great start on her. Carry on!
  11. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Thanks, SeaEric!

    It has been a very busy 36 hours...

    Never underestimate the power of a Subaru jack and a 2x4. Like pretty much everything else on these yachts, Chris Craft built the floor supports to really tight tolerances. A little tweak on the jack and the floor joists pretty much flew out. Coming from a 52' Connie, Let me just say that the removable joists make the Roamers much easier to work on.

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    More help from the Subi jack & 2x4 and the engine hatch started movin' out.

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    I'm thinkin' moonroof...

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    Floors...check
    Engine hatch...check
    Refrigerator...all stop

    This had to be the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life, and that's saying something. Note the empty yet unopened packs of frozen sweet corn on the cob? See the maggot zombies? mmmmmm

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    The maggots and egg casings were everywhere

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    The brown goo at the bottom of the fridge was the same color and consistency of the liquid in the unopened sweet corn packages. I'm guessing that what we're looking at here is some fully processed sweet corn. I mean, there wasn't even any cob left. gak.

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    Then the big boy showed up.

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    And a one-a

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    And a two-a

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    and a three-a

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  12. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    and a genset

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    and an electric stove

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    and a nasty fridge

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    and an R-12 marine AC unit, just because there was still time on the clock.

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    Done.

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    SeaMaster pawah. 1850lbs each with gears.

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    Always read the manual

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    Best food EVER!

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    Tomorrow we get to work on getting the tent up, more bung removal, degreasing the ER, and pulling out all of that blasted Romex that some fool put in for the AC. Finit.

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  13. alloyed2sea

    alloyed2sea Moderator

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    Dash Resto:Tip-of-the-day!

    Been following this thread with great interest.
    Had always heard about the mysterious, phantom CC cabintop hatchway - big foot found!!:eek:
    In any case, just wanted to add a bit of common sense advice.
    When redoing the gauges remember to MARK EACH WIRE. Sounds simple enuff, and once forgotten, big foot escapes!!!
    Meanwhile, here are some good sources for rechroming/rebuilding gauges:
    1. Pat Powell (who did mine very well): Specialists in Marine Instrumentation Restoration. Over 25 Years Experience (708) 209-1487; 1405 Thatcher, River Forest, Illinois 60305. Think he actually worked for the gauge mfg. at one time
    2. Dale Kocian - see his work here:
    http://www.ccgauges.com/ The CC Commanderos swear by him: http://www.network54.com/Forum/4248...ent+Restoration+-----&gt;+by+Dale+Kocian+&lt;
    3. eBay: Keep looking, they always pop up here.​

    The dash on my 37' Riviera (before & after):
    http://www.geocities.com/tin_tonic/MadDash.html

    Other good sources for classic CC stuff:
    http://www.chris-craft.org/advertisers.html

    Keep up the good work, only take a break after that last "adventure". :p
    Cheers!
    Eric

    Attached Files:

  14. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Kewl. Thanks for the links. Ain't the internet grand?

    Well, we wrapped up our 11-day working holiday by getting rid of that horrid aft deck enclosure and working on demolishing the aft cabin. I'll be nice to take a little break and get back to real life. lol


    Good progress here.

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    Here's what we started with on the aft deck:

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    Mind you, this was after the first wave of dejunking...

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    Rotting Home Despot lumber, meet Mr. Chainsaw...

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    Do ya think these could be the sources of the leaks into the aft stateroom? fyi, lousy install of cheap lumber that was then poorly maintained (if maintained at all) is what caused this problem. The rest of the teak is in excellent condition.

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  15. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Done and ready for tenting next weekend.

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  16. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Work, work, work. Yadayadayada And a great time was had by all...


    Look what we've done to the aft stateroom! Isn't it wonderfully spacious and airy?

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    I must point out that the vast majority of this work was performed by the missus. I am the luckiest man alive.

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    There's a butterfly analogy here somwhere, but I'm not gonna say it. Now the drying out begins in earnest.

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    ...to be continued...
  17. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    The shrink wrap is an excellent idea. Sure looks like a lot of ripping and tearing happening there. Your wife is a definite "keeper"! Can't wait to see the next update.
  18. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Things would go faster if you and the other Eric would come down and help out. lol

    Next weekend I'm focusing on getting shore power hooked up (I finally found a 240VAC outlet near the boat that I can tap into), the helm station stripped of any electronics older than 2005 (which means all of it), all extraneous and otherwise hinky wiring removed, and continuing my efforts in the engine room.

    The missus will continue her good work aft. She's getting pretty good with a sledge and wrecking bar.
  19. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Holy smokes! It's a freakin' rainforest in the tent!

    There weren't enough vents cut, so it was actually dripping precipitation inside. There was a bird stuck in there as well. Took a good five minutes to get that bugger out. Little sumbeeotch was pecking at the plastic, ferchrissakes! I cut a bunch of vents and taped them up so rain won't get in. Wonder how many birds will be in there tomorrow...

    Shore power is now functional. Interestingly, the isolation transformer hums like a ferroresonant charger cookin' a set of batteries on high. There's no way anybody but my college-age son could sleep in the V-berth with that racket going on. Might have to upgrade to a Charles transformer before long.

    Looking at the breaker schematic I found on board, I started flipping things on. Lo and behold! Lights, camera, action! Over the course of the afternoon, I discovered that several wires going to different places in the bilge had been cut and left hanging. In general, I found this when I pushed a piece of Romex to the side and it contacted aluminum. Lotsa sparks and POP goes the breaker! After two such incidents, I shut off shore power and concentrated on getting rid of hinky wiring.

    Eventually, I started giving the steering gear the greasy eyeball. Everything is now disconnected and unbolted, but these two pins are giving me serious grief. I tried working them out with a woodworking clamp, a 5# sledge, and even the biggest set of mondo channel locks I've got.

    They didn't budge.

    Tonight, I'll make up a little press to push them out and see if I have more luck tomorrow.

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    Meanwhile, the missus is doing a bangup job on the aft stateroom. Port side should be done next week or so.

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  20. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Demolition, demolition, demolition.

    It didn't make it far past freezing today and tomorrow's high will be 27*. Gonna call this weekend a shorty and stay home drinkin' toddies tomorrow!

    The missus is doing a bang-up job on the aft stateroom. The port side is about half done. For those of you who have similar vessels, take a good long look at the vent pipe (that dryer pipe-looking stuff). See how it's it's all shredded, letting water fall on your floors? Yup, that rots out the floors. For this remodel it really doesn't matter, but if you're wanting to stay original you might want to consider making sure your pipe is in good condition so it drains properly into the bilge instead of your cabinetry or onto the plywood floor. Even the Chris Craft-grade ply has its limits...

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    I ripped out the last of the Romex and other 120v circuits that won't be necessary in the future. The 12v panel is working now, too. Let there be LIGHT! lol

    After getting the last of the wiring done, I set to work on the galley remodel. We're going to put the fridge where the stairs lead to the door of the V-berth. The stairs will go where the forward head is. The head will go where the shower is. There won't be a forward shower and there won't be any built-in sofa, but the V-berth will have much larger bunks, the galley will be much more user friendly, and there will be a dishwasher. This is a mandatory item.

    Anyway, here's how it looks now. I figure one or two more good days of demolition and this area will be ready for the remodel to begin.

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    More to come, weather permitting.
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