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Formula 45 T2 Props?

Discussion in 'Props, Shafts & Seals' started by BigWaveDave, Jun 1, 2020.

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  1. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    I purchased a new Formula 45 in 2018 and the boat was shipped to Arizona with T3 props.

    The boat has never been able to get on plane and I was told by a Volvo tech that I need the T2 props.

    The motors are making 3,100 rpm at full throttle and are suppose to get 3,600 rpm. He believes the extra rpms should help push the bow over but they are $3,500/set so it's an expensive test.

    Formula said the trim tabs have to be fully extended in order to get the boat on plane but that doesn't seem right to me.

    Does anyone have experience with a similar over-prop situation?
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Have you tried..?
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The T2 is designed for the D11 motor. T3 for the D13.

    Google: Volvo Penta Propeller Guide
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, some boats need full tabs to get on plane, then back tabs off once it's on plane. That being said, if boat was purchased new, it needs to see WOT rpms and manufacturer should be responsible for that.......There are different T3 props that have different pitch. You need less pitch if you're not achieving WOT RPMS. Is the bottom and running gear clean?
  5. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    Yes but unfortunately only one extends. I have the interceptors so they extend down and up. One motor must have failed so I'm not able to see if that works until I can have it replaced.
  6. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    Yes, I recently had the bottom cleaned but it didn't help.
  7. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    You purchased a new planing boat that can not plane in 2018.

    How many times has the Dealer/factory tried to resolve their problem? And why won’t they give you the right props for your application? They get three tries to resolve a recurring issue before the alarm bells go off, does not matter if it is out of warranty.

    Starting to smell like a lemon law issue and you need to get your documents lined up and some legal counsel unless there are some missing pieces to this story?

    What waters are you boating in?
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Well, you need to get it fixed ASAP and then see if the boat planes and then get the manufacturer to remedy the issue. It would be a HUGE issue for me if I bought the boat. I'm with Pacblue on this.
  9. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    I stopped working with the dealer because they are a bunch of idiots. I've been working with Formula directly to fix this.

    They said they ship every yacht with the T3 props and never had an issue but I'm assuming most go to the ocean. I'm in a freshwater lake at 1,700 feet. I sold my 31 PC to someone in Lake Powell which is twice the elevation I'm at now and the owner had to change the props so elevation is a big factor.

    Is it common for a boat of this size to require full trim tabs to get on plane? My 31 PC got on plane with no issue and no tabs down.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, I run a 2006 48' Formula with shafts and it's a pig. Weight is too far aft and you have to run full tabs to stay on plane.
  11. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Ah, Lake Powell has some unique issues.
    First your engines are not producing their rated power at that elevation, you will need to get VP involved with the high altitude application. They should know the adjustments for that area.
    Next you have fresh water and your boat sits a bit deeper. If you have narrow channels or water depth that is less than 5 times your draft, you may have shallow water effects to overcome as well. Lot of little issues stacking up against you, but they are known to the Industry.
    So for sure you need to change props, but they will need less pitch as the altitude is limiting your power and you need to see rated rpm. You may also need to get your fuel checked for cetane levels to ensure you are getting the right bang for your buck. You might need a cutaneous booster for your fuel.
    It is not uncommon for a pod boat to have full tab to get on plane, they usually can program it to react and reduce tab (interceptors)as you get on plane, but full tab to start is not uncommon.
    The VP QL interceptors do not have the best reputation and they both should be checked to make sure you get full depth. Humphree interceptors are a better option.
    If your intention was to buy a boat for Lake Powell from day one, the dealer/boat builder/Volvo Penta should have been aligned to give you a product that performs in that location.
  12. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    Good tips and info, thanks.

    Are the Humphree Interceptors interchangeable with the Volvo Interceptors?

    I had the 31 PC and 45 built new so the dealer and Formula knew the location and application. The dealer was clueless about the 45 so I had to figure out most of the features myself. I asked Formula to send out a rep to go over the features but they said that's the dealer's job.

    I love the boat but I'd never buy another one considering the service I'm getting.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Manufacturers can't send people to work with customers in a dealer's territory except by the dealer's invitation, but your call will certainly have them re-evaluating their relationship with that dealer when their contract is up. Next year you might find him selling a different brand. Often during extended periods of prosperity you'll find dealers with the attitude that if you don't buy there's someone right behind you who will. Then when the inevitable downturn comes they cry 'Why me' when their customers abandon them. I've seen it every decade since the 1960's. Our local Formula dealer used to hire me and other captains to not only give orientations but lessons. I can't even guess how many new customers I (and probably many other) steered to them because of how they take care of their customers. It may have cost them more to sell each boat, but they've got a customer base and reputation that will help them when what I think is coming comes.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, they can and do a lot of times. Manufacturers can absolutely step in and do warranty work in a dealers territory if they see fit. I've seen most brands do this from time to time. Especially in a case like this where the vessel was setup wrong and the fix has to do with a third party (Volvo's) warranty.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I'm not referring to warranty work. I'm referring to " The dealer was clueless about the 45 so I had to figure out most of the features myself. I asked Formula to send out a rep to go over the features but they said that's the dealer's job." It would be like McD's corporate setting up a store next to a franchise because they weren't courteous enough to their customers.
  16. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    The strange part is the boat will get up to 35 mph but won't plane. The tech guy I spoke with works for a Volvo service center and said the extra 500 rpms from the T2 props should be enough.

    I have to get the interceptors fixed regardless but I wanted to wait until the fall because it also needs bottom paint.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    at 35 mph it surely is on plane. It most likely is on plane at 25 mph. Larger boats in your size range generally need the trim tabs half way down at cruise speed to have a good running angle. But the lack of RPM's, the props still need to be changed ASAP.
  18. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    Thanks for the help. I didn't want to waste $7K only to find out the T2's didn't help.
  19. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Since you ordered the boat from day one to be used in a unique location at Lake Powell, neither the Dealer or Manufacturer can deny this fact.

    The conversation should have went like this > Dealer asks Manufacturer to ensure performance in High Altitude fresh water lake > Manufacturer reviews Propulsion System with Supplier for any corrections, adjustments and disclaimers necessary for this specific location > Dealer advises buyer of the results and they are noted on the final paperwork.

    If this didn't occur, they as a team have not done their job and have essentially sold you a saltwater set-up for a high altitude fresh water lake application. I can understand that you love the boat and don't want hassles but in the same breadth I think they owe you a set of new props that allow the engine to make the rated rpm of 3600. Otherwise, I can not even see how you are in or have ever been in a true covered warranty set-up on your Volvo Penta equipment, did they (an authorized Volvo Penta technician) ever come out to the boat and do a start-up or PID to begin the warranty documentation? And leave you with documentation?

    As far as the QL Interceptor, is it covered under warranty? It should be tied to the "brains" of the IPS System which has GPS sensors, some type of mini gyro sensor , trim sensors etc. It should be able to be adjusted to give you automatic full tab (100%) under initial acceleration to get on plane, and then settle in to some level (25% - 50%) that optimizes trim running angles to about 3 - 4 degrees. This is programmable by the Volvo Technician and should be automatic.

    So it seems like you are in the middle between a poor performing dealer and a builder who doesn't want to step up and get their product set-up the right way as I feel they should have reached out to VP and had new props sent, the QL Interceptor fixed, and a confirming sea trial with an authorized Volvo technician to document the successful sea trial at 3600 rpm.. I would say you need to get a person at the Volvo Penta Factory in Chesapeake, Virginia involved as well, especially to ensure that you have the propulsion system set-up so that it is within the warranty guidelines.

    https://www.volvopenta.us/marineleisure/en-us/for-owners.html

    Maybe you can speak to us about not planing, but achieving 35 mph, what is going on with the boat, is the transom free and clear and you have a decent wake behind the boat? Or do you have a situation where you hit a high speed number and pull back the throttles a bit and she loses speed and fall off, almost like flipping a switch? I think Lake Powel is deep enough that shallow water should be ruled out unless you have different feedback?
  20. BigWaveDave

    BigWaveDave New Member

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    Thanks for all the info and help. I had new T2 props installed last week and the boat got on plain and RPM's were a bit above 3,600.

    Three of the four trim tabs aren't working so I'll have to get those fixed this fall.