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Fender and motoring line size

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by JohnHansen, Dec 29, 2019.

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  1. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    As beeing a new boat owner, I hope somebody could help me choosing the right size of fenders: My boat is a 60’ Princess 60, around 22 tons. I tend towards the Majoni Star 5 (300 mmØ x 900 mm), but are they just too small or will they do the job?
    I also plan to buy a couple of maybe 400 x ca 1100 mm fenders and a couple of 750 mm single eye fenders.

    Also mooring lines, different guides state 20-22 mm lines, but will the 20 mm lines do the job? Also, depending on quality and material lines of the same diameter can have different tensile strength - how much do I need?

    I hope you will be able to add some real life experience
  2. mapism

    mapism Member

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    The sizes you are mention sound about right, both for fenders and mooring lines.
    But to some extent, the choice is also driven by the conditions in which you are planning to leave your boat.
    I mean, in strong wind, alongside mooring normally puts more stress on the lines, compared to stern-to.
    Besides, depending on if/how much your marina (or any other you are thinking to visit) can be affected by swell, shock absorbers on the main lines in stern-to mooring could be anywhere from nice to have all the way up to essential, in some cases.

    PS: R U sure of the 22T? That sounds light for a 60'...
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Your just at the dead calm weather, no issues specs for a 60.
    I would bump all up one size to start, with doubles for rough weather.
    On storm weather, even larger pending what your cleats will take.
  4. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Well, the OP is in Denmark according to his profile, so I assumed he's either boating in that area or somewhere in the Med - neither of which are areas prone to hurricanes.
    In fact, I've been using 20mm lines myself for the best part of 30 years with two different boats, both heavier.
    Their breaking load is in excess of 5T, and I don't think the cleats of any plastic 60 footer could withstand that sort of load...

    Same goes for fenders: I understand the "better safe than sorry" principle, but most fender-related damages I witnessed had much more to see with a wrong placement, than to undersizing.
    Besides, I've seen built-in s/steel fender holders in several Princess boats (though I can't be positive about this one, obviously), and I very much doubt that those of a 60', if present, can take fenders larger than 300mm.
  5. menkes

    menkes Member

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    Capt. you are absolutely right
    This is one of the cases where bigger is
    better
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    5/8"x50' lines for day/traveling/lunch lines. 3/4"x50' for serious lines......normal slip, weather...….. 3- 18"x42" fenders with long fender lines......the Hypalon, light weight fenders.....
  7. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Check out the Polyform F series fenders. F7 and F8 are lighter for 60' in protected water. F10 to F11 for 60'+ in open water, heavier and very durable. We have two F11's at our dock for tropical weather, still ok after 14 years.
  8. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    Thank you for the comments regarding fenders and mooring lines! Regarding the weight of the boat, the Model History page of Princess Yachts states a deplacement of the Princess 60 from 1995 to 2000, to approx. 22,5 tonnes and when my boat was lifted in July this year, the crane operator told me that she weighed 21,5 tonnes. So yes, it seemes a bit light for a 60 feet boat, but I think
    it is right :)
  9. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    You are absolutely right - I live in Denmark, and the boat is also going to be moored in Denmark, most of the time in the city where I live, called Vejle. It is at the bottom of a 20 km long fjord with 40-50 m 'hills' on each side and the city opposite the fjord, so it will be quite protected - I have attached a couple of maps - my mooring is at the blue circle. Map of fjord at Vejle.JPG
    Map of harbour at Vejle.JPG
    Harbour Vejle.JPG
    You are also right about the hurricanes - we don't have many of them here in Denmark, but the max recorded wind speed in Denmark is 193 km/t (around 120 mph). I the city where I live and the boat will be moored, I don't think the wind has ever been more than 100 km/t (60-70 mph).
    Regarding the mooring lines, I have found a 20 mm with a breaking strength of 9900 kg - I think that must be sufficient - but they cost 11 US$ pr. meter (I also have 2 pcs. of 26 mm lines which came with boat but they are actually a bit too big for the clamps ;);)).
    You are dead on regarding the fender holders of the Princess - they can handle up to 250mm/10" diameter and around 800 mm/32" length - the boat came with some original Princess fenders that fit the holders, but I think that these fenders are just too small for a 60 feeter.
  10. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    Yes, the Polyform seems to be very good quality and the F7 and F8 seems to be the right size - they just cost about 3 times the Majoni Star 5 which are available at a very reasonable price. But again, if they last long and it is what is needed to protect the boat, then that's the way to go.
  11. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Aha, it wasn't the latest Prin 60 model that you were talking about. Excellent boat, the previous one.
    That and the Squadron 58 were the only British models I considered, during my last boat search.
    Out of curiosity, does she really reach 35kts with MANs 800, as I recall to have read in a test?
    That sounded pretty impressive for a 60 footer, though it's more understandable when related to displacement.
  12. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    I've not seen the Majoni fenders here , they look identical to the Polyform at a good price. For rafting and protected docking we use the F7 on a 72 footer. Check the Polyform price on Amazon. Pro Covers fit well and reasonable.
  13. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    Thank you for the kind word about the P60 ! It’s funny that you mention the Fairline 58 Sq as I was actually looking for a Fairline 55 Sq, but during the time it took from my wife and I had decided to buy a boat and till we were actually ready, the prices of the 55 Sq had just risen out of our reach! And then we were offered the P60 at a reasonable price but also in need of some work.
    I have also read the test where the P60 reaches a speed of 35,5 knots with the 2 x 800 hp MANs - I think it was from 1998 when introducing Princess Yachts to the australien market. Well, I have not tested it here in Denmark as it has been on land for work since I got it earlier this year, but when I tested it in Italy previous to buying it, it did reach 32 knots in very windy and rainy conditions with 1 - 1,5 m waves .... my ‘engine guy’ whom I brought with me from Denmark to do the technical inspection before buying it and who is much more experienced than I, thought that in calm wheather and flat water, it would do 2-3 knots more .... so it might get close to 35 knots. But as it is burning 6-7 liters of diesel each minute (estimated) at full throttle, that kind of speed is not really practical - at least not for my wallet
  14. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    The best price I can find for a F7, is around 900DKK/120€/130US$, for one fender. The F7 is 375 mm/15" in diameter and 1020 mm/ 40" long. The Majoni Star 5 is 300 mm / 12" in diameter and 900 mm / 35" long, and at this site:
    https://www.marinescene.co.uk/produ...r-boat-fender-size-5-black-deflated-free-rope
    you can get a set of 4 fenders for 1.150DKK/152€/170US$, incl. fender rope. Is the extra price worth the slightly bigger fender?
    'Funny' enough, the site stated that the Majoni Star 5 fender are for use for boats from 32' to 45' .... ;)o_O
  15. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    That is same Polyform f7 price here per fender color black. If the Majoni star 5 is 12x36 and the weight of your boat is correct they should be ok in protected water, you can't have to many. Get two 2o" buoy fenders, you will always have a need for them. Are those floating docks you posted?
  16. mapism

    mapism Member

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    A bit less, actually.
    According to MAN specs, those engines burn 162 l/h each at their rated max rpm/load, i.e. 5.4 l/minute overall.
    But that's irrelevant anyhow, because WOT only makes sense for occasional seatrials, not for cruising.
    By the way, I was asking because my boat is similarly sized and powered by the very same engines.
    So, I believe you will get comparable results also in terms of fuel burn, i.e. from 7 to 8 litres per nautical mile, in the typical range of cruising speeds - i.e. anywhere from 18/19 @1700rpm, up to 25/26 kts @2000rpm.
    Of course, YMMV. But not much, I think.

    PS: how loaded was the boat during that seatrial which you mention?
    I'm not sure that the sea conditions you describe can slow down a 60 footer by 2 or 3 knots, but the max speed you registered is already respectable anyway!
  17. JohnHansen

    JohnHansen New Member

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    I all ready have plans to buy a couple of large buoy fenders, maybe a bit bigger than 20”, but I agree fully on that - they are handy whenever you need some more space - or there is risk of comming to the dock just a bit too hard
    And also 2 Polyform F8 or a couple of big inflatable fenders for those special situations
    All 7 docks in the photos I posted are floating and also the south dock close to the apportmemts are floating, so they will follow the boat with the tide (which is not that much in these waters, but of cause can be when it is storm and the sea is pressed into the fjord)
    The harbour has been completely ‘rebuilt’ over the last 10 years, with new floating docks with T’s, new solid docks, large wooden walkways, 8 pcs of 10 storage appartmemt buildings, some lower, new floating kayak club housing, new row club housing, restaurent with roof terrasse ..... is has become a very nice place to be
  18. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    You are good to go and will like those floating docks. The Polyforms will take a lot more abuse and out last the lightweight inflatable fenders. Enjoy that new boat.
  19. Fixinbones

    Fixinbones Member

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    Yeah but I find the poly forms very heavy and the wife has problems placing the compared to the inflatable ones from Taylor
  20. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    I have the same problem. The reason we use the F7's, can double up if needed. We had 5 brand name lightweight inflatables, all leaked at the seams. The seams will not hold up under rough conditions that will happen in time when laying up against pilings or floating docks.