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El Faro: NTSB findings so far, EL Faro's boilers needed servicing

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by Capt J, Oct 20, 2015.

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  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    For you to have the audacity to call someone else out for their rude and argumentative comments. The pot calling the kettle black. You are great at criticizing everyone else's posts and claiming your superior knowledge and insight while contributing absolutely nothing to the thread. You just like to insult and then when that gets the same in return, you are righteously indignant. You claim to be too good to actually share knowledge here though.

    So you want something to argue with, here is a recreated path and time line.

    http://vid809.photobucket.com/album...amp Joaquin Corrected 2 Movie_zpsetb2hn0n.mp4

    However, until you contribute something constructive, I'll choose not to try to answer your posts as they're simply designed to create discord.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It hasn't "become" a useless thread. It has been one from the first post, as were the last two threads started on the same subject and apparantly designed to malign the captain and the company through speculation and no evidence. I unsubscribed so as not to have my time wasted with endless update emails saying nothing new, but occassionally look back in with hopes new information may have surfaced. It hasn't, but the garbage continues.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    You make it sound like maligning some innocent company. The Company is the one then diverting the blame to the Captain. You care about the Captain's family. I do too, but I also care about all the other families. Are you saying the information released by the NTSB is speculation and no evidence? That's where I've gotten what I posted, that and statements from the company. Certainly using their own statements against them can't be considered unfair. You think any opinion not agreeing with you is garbage. There is a lot of evidence that an old, at minimum not in the best of condition, boat went into a hurricane, had a water breach, lost power, and sank. We don't know why the water, why the lost power, why it sank. We do have many statements made by the company and made by others who have previously worked on this boat. We also have information disclosed regarding the sister ship. Why didn't you jump to the defense of the Costa Concordia owner and captain? Why didn't you defend the owner of the Korean Ferry with the same passion you're defending this company and captain?

    You blasted the law suits by the families who lost family members. What about the mother with five children who lost her husband, their father, and her sole source of income as well? What do you expect them to do, just say "oh it's ok, we're not upset?" What about the suit filed by TOTE? Again, in reporting all of those, I wasn't speculating. I was reporting fact. I even reported the archaic law TOTE was trying to use to limit their liability while at the same time claiming they did nothing wrong, if any wrong was done it was all done by the Captain.

    You're just coming in to call the thread garbage. Do you have any information to contribute to it? Have you been following the events since the accident? You think this forum is tough, go read the debates taking place on ********.

    The fact is 33 lives were lost. They were lost for perhaps multiple reasons, some of which we don't know yet. We do know without question their chances of survival would have been better had they not chosen to sail in the direction of a hurricane, regardless of how safe they felt that was. Did you look at their path and the timeline I linked to?

    And, yes, regardless of the reasons the lives were lost, the Company does bear responsibility. Every company does for every boat they send out. In events like this they justifiably get questioned. If they aren't internally questioning themselves then there's something wrong with their thought process. The actions and decisions of the Captain also get questioned. They should be as his ship and crew were lost. There are reasons that on this day, this ship and the lives of 33 people were lost. The final report is a year away, but a lot of information is already available.

    It amazes me somewhat that everyone wants to talk about the quality of the thread but I've posted updates and facts and no one comments on those.

    I think events of this type merit discussion. The goal by all should be to prevent future loss of life. Every opinion I've offered to this point has been on known facts, but if others have opinions based on partial information available then they're also entitled. Lives were lost that didn't need to be. If this leads to a broader discussion of the shipping industry or pressure companies and/or employees feel or condition of some of the ships being used or the wisdom of sailing in the direction of hurricanes then that's constructive. These discussions do arise right after the events. A year later when the final report is issued there will be more discussions but for many the issue will have faded into the background.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty, and I've yet to see quotation marks relating to statements by the company, the captain or the NTSB saying anything about the boiler suffering a high pressure situation or anything else about the cause of this tragedy. Is there something unusual about a company looking to limit its liability, and getting started with it when plaintiff's lawyers are already knocking on their door? If I got a summons the first thing I would do is call my attorney and tell him to open the war room.

    The NTSB has been meticulous about not speculating, unlike the tabloids and YF members. Did I miss them stating the cause of the sinking? Last I heard they have yet to find the superstructure, much less the data recorder nor been inside the ship nor even surveyed the hull.

    What evidence have you unearthed that this was an "at minimum not in the best of condition, boat"? If you have such, that would make the U.S.C.G. inspector clearly at fault as the ship recently passed inspections. What evidence do you have that the ship's position was the cause of the sinking, and not another or a combination of the 3 factors we know of coinciding or even just the hull breach and list? Last report was that the ship was in 10'-12' seas. Would you consider those seas dangerous for a ship this size? I've been in seas considerable larger than that in boats 1/20th the size of this ship. Has anybody plotted the ships course relative to the reported sea conditions to see what seas would have been encountered if the ship had continued along and not lost power? Does anybody know the height of the seas, where the ship was, at the time the ship foundered? For all we know the ship rolled in 10' seas (or even flat calm seas as you'll often find in the eye of a hurricane) due to the list it encountered from water taken in through the hull breach, and the cause of the sinking was a bilge pump that failed. That's total speculation, but as valid as any of the theories put forth here.

    There have been 124 posts on this thread, plus (2) prior threads filled with all sorts of speculation and condemnation, yet the only thing known beyond what was known in the first few days is that the ship was located in 15,000 feet of water and the bridge is seperated and not yet found. YachtForums.com is known throughout the industry as an authoritative source. This thread (and the two prior) puts it on a par with the National Enquirer.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    30-40'.
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Do you mean your quotes in post #115? Maybe that is because the link to the NTSB source was provided in post #106 so #115 added nothing new.

    Your link to the timeline and graphics is old news as well, it was posted on another maritime web site some time ago and only illustrates the paths of the ship and the storm. No one is arguing about the known facts, the routing, or the timeline. I for one am only arguing against the ill informed speculation that gave birth to and has defined this thread. The degree and scope of speculation is what should amaze any reader who came looking for information ... it makes the writers at National Enquirer look like highly skilled investigative reporters.
  7. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    This thread has become like an echo chamber, so let's try to close it down over the FLIBS. If some real news comes our way, we can have it reopened.
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