Click for Llebroc Click for Nordhavn Click for Mag Bay Click for Seacoast Click for Fendertex

Dripless shaft seals dripping.

Discussion in 'Props, Shafts & Seals' started by Danvilletim, Aug 31, 2014.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    The yard replaced the shaft seals with tide marine Dripless. Same as what was on there. They are leaking and deemed to need a new replacement. The diagnosis is that there is some pitting on the shaft not causing it to seal. Is this sound logical?

    Yard is recommending either a graphite solution (instead of rubber o ring ) or traditional packing stuffing box.

    I'd certainly prefer Dripless, but can't afford to get this wrong a second time.

    Btw, any one know cost to turn shafts? Boat is 62 striker with 3.5" shafts
  2. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,282
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    Shafts need the full spa treatment if they're in poor condition - otherwise they just tear up the new seals. 5 year dripless service cost of $5000 or more for your size boat is not uncommon. Personally I would go back to conventional stuffing boxes. The cost of maintaining dripless is ridiculous. And the dream of a dry bilge is usually not a reality anyway.
  3. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,040
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    Pitted shafts could be the culprit so that scenario isn't far fetched. Are both port and Starb leaking? I had a case of one seal leaked on me after seal replacement /renewal and after a lot of head scratching and hauling the boat I found that the shaft
    Had 1/8 " travel in the coupling due to a worn key way and galling of the coupling. Every time the vessel went from fwd to reverse it was pulling the carbon slinger seal away from the sprung nylon seal wearing it out after maybe four or five shifts. Just a though for u to check. Pull your coupling and see if it's dry or if it has a rusty never seize type of substance that you'll have if you have a worn coupling.
  4. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    I've tried to get a dry bilge for the last month having every fresh water leak, shafts, etc fixed. And still wet, so good to hear this is not that unusual. Recommend seals are Pss and looki to be close to $1900 each....

    Is there any tips in specifiying out a stuffing box?
  5. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,282
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    Did I see your boat in San Diego last Thursday on Shelter Island? If so I can PM the guy you should talk to in SD. In the meantime google Buck Algonquin.
  6. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Yes it was on shelter island, on the america cup harbor side. I was down for a quick visit. Yes send me contact info!
  7. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,905
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
  8. dsharp

    dsharp Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    lake jackson, tx
    Is the shaft pitted or worn where the original stuffing box was located?
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,346
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I just had replaced 2 sets of Tides on 2 different boats last month. occasionally the Tides swell and get stuck on the shaft and spin with it breaking off the water lines and using them much like a weedwacker. The other one, they leaked profusely because the water connection in the tide was blocked with growth.

    First off I would have the yard warranty it if it was in the last few months. The shafts should have been cleaned with emory cloth and smooth prior to installation, and they should have been measured and if not the correct diameter, they should've installed a different seal set.

    Before you haul the boat or any of that. Half of the time when the Tides leak it is because a small piece of debris had gotten caught between the shaft and seal. Take a .003 feeler gauge and slip it in between the shaft and the lip seal and run it around the shaft several times, this should clear any debris.....most of the time they stop dripping.

    If you're going to change them I wouldn't put Tides back. Traditional packing glands with GFO packing would probably be my choice.......Unless you insist on dripless, but I would do Tides. I really liked the dripless system Cabo and Hatteras used(s) but forgot the manufacturer.
  10. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,905
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  11. captbluewater

    captbluewater New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Los Suenos
    If the shaft is pitted you could move the shaft seal so that it is riding on a different part of shaft if there is room to move it.
  12. corinthian99

    corinthian99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    London, UK
    No one seems to have mentioned that the shaft may be (if indeed it is) for a reason - which if left unattended will eventually lead to failure. I am only guessing but is the boat left idle for long periods or in polluted water - google crevice corrosion of stainless steel.

    BTW you can have shafts clad - spiral welded and then machined down - but I don't know how cost effective it is for small shafts.
  13. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Being hauled again on Friday. Plan is to dial measure the shafts and if round do either Pss carbon or traditional stuffing with water cool option.

    There an option to recondition but pulling shafts means pulling props which all told is going to add $5k.

    I'm not hearing any hard fast metrics on the roundness.... Anybody?
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,346
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I haven't seen any issue with roundness. But I would be standing there with dial calipers and measure the shaft thickness where the tide seal rides on. If it measures 20 thousands or more thinner than the shaft diameter I'd be having the yard eat the installation for putting them in the same spot on the shaft again. Unforunately to put a longer shaft hose on the shaft tube you have to drop the shafts again. You might be able to shorten the hose on the shaft tube to put the tide seals in a lower location without dropping the shafts, but generally there isn't enough clearance. I'm not a fan of tide seals from my experiences those are the ones I've always had screw up and they do wear the shaft down where the hard eurethane rides on it. Also if they're leaking I'd be on the phone with Tide Seals looking for a concession considering it's been 2 months. You can almost always put the new shaft seal in a different location fore or aft on the shaft if there is a little wear where the tide seal has been riding.

    Even being an aluminum hull I would really consider water cooled traditional packing with GFO packing in there and glueing a piece of starboard on the hull to re-direct any drippage so it's no dripping in the same exact spot on the hull, or even glueing a sump underneath it that pumps it over so you have no leakage into the hull if there's clearance for it......Possibly a Rule shower sump box with the lid off of it...... The GFO lasts a very long time, rarely drips, and rarely has to be repacked or even tightened. Shaft alignment can also cause the dripless to leak prematurely.
  15. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,282
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    I hope you're not going to the yard next door to where your boat is right now.
  16. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,905
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    Curious how you have decided on a PSS Shaft Seal- can you expand what your are looking for in a shaft seal installation or what led you to this decision?

    I have never been a huge fan of face seals, have to side with CaptJ on this one ;)

    Also, do you have camera's in the engine room that are viewed from the bridge that can give a view of the shaft seals underway?
  17. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    It's either Pss or traditional stuffing. I'm leaning towards stuffing at this point. I'd like a dry bilge but just might not happen.

    Why would I need a camera on the shaft seals?
  18. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,905
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    For a vessel of your size, regardless of which stuffing box you choose, I would expect to have video feed from major areas of potential water ingress - Lazzarette - Rudders, Engine Room - Shaft Log/Main Raw Water Intakes/Exhaust Risers and potentially Bow Thruster Tube Forward.

    This does not preclude any physical Engine Room Checks or High Water alarms, just adds another level of safety, especially in running the Pacific Coast in some of those isolated stretches. The cost would be minimal for the benefits offered.
  19. d_meister

    d_meister Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    301
    Location:
    San Diego, CA.
    I've run boats with both Tides and PSS seals for thousands of hours each without problems. Of the two, I prefer PSS, especially since the installation is more forgiving. I had a set put on an old aluminum Chris Craft Roamer that had badly worn and pitted shafts. When the installers pointed that out, I told them to put some 3M 101 on the shaft and let's see what happens. They sealed perfectly and survived several trips from San Diego to Manzanillo and Puerto Vallarta, and beyond. We had that boat re-plated because of corrosion from standing water, so that's the reason for dripless on that boat. corinthian99 makes a good point about crevice corrosion. One boat I ran had crevice corrosion on the shafts between where the Tides bearing surfaces and seals were. That boat never stood still, and it still developed corrosion. Whichever you use, be sure and maintain the water injection system and run the engines regularly to introduce new water into the area.
  20. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Update: port shaft is .01 out of alignment. Starboard is true. Going to decouple and do engine alignment on Mon and see we can avoid hauling the shafts to the machine shop.