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Designer Yachts...

Discussion in 'Yacht Designers Discussion' started by AMG, Jul 23, 2005.

  1. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Sometimes we are touching the subject of good yacht design. I would like to make a new distinction in this field... Designer Yachts.

    The best explanation is to compare the work of the two most influential yacht designers of the last decades, Fritz de Voogt and Jon Bannenberg.

    The Feadship founder and naval architect Fritz de Voogt is together with Jack Hargrave among the best yacht designers we have seen in modern times. They both made very well proportioned and purposeful designs, most of their yachts will forever be considered timeless beauties and retain their values. They are all very good yacht designs.

    But Jon Bannenberg changed the scene by introducing what I would like to call Designer Yachts. They were in general made as conceptual designs, mostly with avant-garde lines and interiors, always with the exterior and interior themes corresponding as an entity. Jon Bannenberg was never a follower, always a leader. Much the same as his clients.

    Among all of his designs I want to pick a few to remind you, Carinthia VI, Nabila, Parts VI, Acajou, Never say Never, Coral Island and Limitless.

    They are all true Designer Yachts.

    Other designers who has made good Designer Yachts are Gerhard Gilgenast with L´Aquasition (Artful Dodger) and Ed Dubois with Esprit (Aquel II).

    Fabio Perini and his team has developed a series of yachts that are groundbreaking and as such Designer Yachts, same as with Luca Bassani and his Wally team where both innovation and design are used to reach new levels of yachting.

    Martin Francis was behind the revolutionary design Eco (ex-Katana, now Enigma) and has a follower called Crystal Ball as a 140 m project.

    An outsider was the designer of Izanami (Ronin), the famous architect Norman Foster. Another outsider is Philippe Starck who after the not so thrilling Wedge Too, has come back with the almost too thrilling project Sigma!

    Last but not least we have to consider another spectacular yacht as a true Designer Yacht, the last big commission by Jon Bannenberg, the 138 m Rising Sun.

    These are my personal thoughts on Designer Yachts. It is not a complete listing and there are certainly many nice yachts out there that other may consider as Designer Yachts. But as I see it, without hanging out any particular yacht design, these are often followers or just in search of attention without any true design qualities. This will not necessarily mean that they are less good yachts, only they will not fit in as real Designer Yachts... ;)

    To sum this up, to me a Designer Yacht is a genuine and essentially new design that has qualities we will see repeated in other good yacht designs.

    /Lars


    PS. If you don´t know how the yachts I have mentioned looks like, use the search tool and I think you will find pictures on most of them here at the Forums. Below is the 96 m Limitless by Bannenberg, built by Lürssen in 1997. Maybe not the most futuristic, but nevertheless a design icon.

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2005
  2. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Good food for thought Lars :) . Among other things, this got me thinking -
    I note that in many cases a designer for the exterior teams up with some other designer for the interior. Does this water down the "entity" theme? Can these collaborations still be considered "designer yachts"?

    Kelly Cook
  3. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    As with Gilgenast and Paola Smith, the L´Aquasition came out as a prize winner. Another example is Lady Tiffany where Mike Peters made the exterior and if it was Artline(?) who made the interior, also as a good entity.

    Sometimes when interior decorators also do the exterior styling, I am less happy. But one of the better is Sarah, where Don Starkeys office made both. It is a very nice yacht, but I don´t count it as a Designer Yacht since almost the same design theme has been used before.
  4. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Paupers can afford to be picky. The top deck on Sara does not sit well with me. But I am certainly impressed with Starkey's new Lady Sheridan -
    [​IMG]

    So - now that we have Designer Yachts - what label can we give those that don't fit as Designer Yachts? Very Good Yachts is accurate, but implies an inferiority to Designer Yachts, rather than a different flavor. Of more or less equal merit?

    Kelly
  5. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Kelly, I am afraid you missed my point now.

    This topic is about design. Not about good yachts or if Designer Yachts are better or not. Many designer yachts have been both tricky to build and difficult to maintain, maybe also less good to handle and to live on. I bet that Starcks Sigma will have many slanderers, still I think we can admire the unusual and uncompromise design she represents.

    This is more about different desires. Do we like to have the most practical yacht, the most beautiful or something more like a statement in design?

    Designer Yachts are pushing the limits and maybe I can describe it as a blend of art and invention. Their lines might have come up by chance, but their designers are in general very experienced. Compare with Picasso, his art was evolutionary during all of his life.

    Jon Bannenberg called himself "a designer. Period." Not interior designer or exterior stylist. His background was classical music and architecture. He was a good listener but without compromise in the execution of his designs. Like many good artists.

    Starkeys Lady Sheridan is a pretty yacht, a contemporary but also mainstream design sharing the lines with several other of his earlier designs. There is nothing in the styling I find new, but built by a good yard she must be considered a good investment.

    I think what many designers dream of, is to make the best of all these worlds, a yacht which can make all involved in the project happy and at the same time be innovative and beautiful!

    Below are three Picassos, from his Blue, Rose and Cubist periods.

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  6. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    No problem Lars. I have understood your argument perfectly. Right from the start. My apologies for the Starkey detour. I did not post that with the meaning of putting it up as a Designer Yacht. Just a nicely integrated design with good harmony. But you're right, it's not ground breaking. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

    Your comparisons to artists like Picasso also strike a note with me. Back in my university days my major was Fine Arts.

    Again, sorry for the detour, please continue on your theme.
    Kelly
  7. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Why build a Designer Yacht?

    If you like to have something really different, it is not any longer about building the biggest, fastest or most expensive yacht. For this you just have to say the word and write the check.

    No, I think we will see many more yachts built on pure design concepts.

    We have seen a parallel in "Designer Hotels" popping up almost everywhere around the world. Although Hotels and Restaurants has always been designed to attract their customers, this new trend started with the Morgans Hotel in New York, designed by Andrée Putman in 1985.

    Then we have seen Philippe Starck designing quite a few more and most travelling people have got used to Designer Hotels as an alternative to Luxury Hotels or Hotel Resorts. What makes them special is not the location, the luxury or size of the rooms. Rather the clean, often with a touch of humour and above all, special design.

    We have had many brilliant designers since the 1920:s, breaking new grounds in architecture and furniture design. Remember names like Aalto, Breuer, Castiglioni, Eames, Jacobsen, Kjaerholm, Knoll, Le Corbusier, Mackintosh, Sapper, Scarpa, Sottsass, Thonet, van der Rohe and Wright. Plus our First Ladies of Design, Charlotte Perriand and Eileen Gray.

    They have given many interior decorators inspiration also in this century, and many yacht buyers already have their masterpieces at home.

    Yachts are in general still very conservative and in my opinion a little boring if you think of them as mainly made for pleasure. Financially it will be little difference to build a new concept compared to copy an existing, since most of it are built to measure anyway.

    What will make a difference though is how you like to achieve it. To find and pick a designer who can make this concept to your taste, might be difficult. This could be the reason why Philippe Starck is commissioned, despite his limited knowledge of yachts. Home interior architects are not uncommon to use and of course this transfers some of the responsibility back to you as a buyer.

    The shipyard will make sure the yacht is built to work as a yacht, but you have to coordinate so the exterior styling, the interior plan and the decoration is good enough to be used on a big yacht. If not, you might end up with more crew, or no crew!

    But with demand comes supply and I think that there are several yacht designers out there who would love to take on the whole project of pushing the limits, without breaking them... ;)


    This is how you will be met at some of Morgans Designer Hotels;

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  8. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Yup! Just as an onlooker I get a kick out of the new designs that take more risks.

    Kelly
  9. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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  10. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Both yes and no...

    From what I have seen, the interior on M147 is more like a castle and the exterior is not really new either. We touched it in an earlier discussion;

    http://www.YachtForums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8531&postcount=123

    Since both of the yachts are still just concepts, I´ll take the liberty to say that my initial design in 1997 could have been considered a Designer Yacht with the curved floor to ceiling glass walls and an open plan interior with designer furnitures and no 24 carat goldfish taps in sight...

    But before any of them are being built, it is better to use the label Gigayachts and then we will judge from the final result... ;)
  11. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Cool. I didn't know the software here allowed you to link to a single page within a thread like that.

    Boy, I see what you mean about the similarity! But you did leave off the Disneyesque circular window in the hull side. Must be marvelous for watching rogue waves roll by :D

    Kelly
  12. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Designers (and artists) have an expression saying; "Kill your darlings". This we use when we have certain conspicuous details all the way through a job, that we in the end decide to remove if they risk to overshadow the final result.

    I will not say that I should have removed this round window if I had made it, but as it is now, it certainly is a dominating feature on this design.

    On selecting a single post, just click on the page # in the right corner and when it opens, copy the url and paste it.
  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Ghost...

    If you are into sailing yachts you have probably already seen some of the designs by Luca Brenta. With Wallygator he helped to put Wally Yachts on the map and today he has further refined the concept of easy sailing where less is more.

    The silver painted 122 footer Ghost, built by Green Marine (hull) and Vitters Shipyard is a true Designer Yacht. She is designed by Luca Brenta and Lorenzo Argento with interior by Piero Lissoni and Kitty Hawks.

    Everything, from the Corbusier sofas on deck, the glass cabin roof to all the concealed high tech equipment are there to endorse and fulfill the design concept.

    If you like to see more of Brentas designs, including his latest 30-foot funboat, look here; http://www.lucabrenta.com/flash/lbyd.htm

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  14. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Something aspiring to be a Designer Yacht is evolving from Foster & Partners in London. Their first attempt is presented on http://www.Yachtplus.co.uk

    It is not yet a really realistic yacht, but if the concept of fractional ownership will succeed this time, I am sure they can buy the knowledge of yachting as well.. :rolleyes:
  15. JonS

    JonS Senior Member

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    I agree, some work needed on the side view, but check out the rear view. Loving the stairs!
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I will not go into detail, but as this yacht looks now it is still not something you would put in the water... ;)

    The stairs are nice and if you put some handrails in between you will be able to use them too. Have a look at Pari who got a nice stern extension with stairs by Espen Oeino in 1996, his first own project I think!:)

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  17. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    To the ROGUES thread with the Yachtplus project Lars. Reminds me of a Medieval helmet :rolleyes:

    Kelly
  18. mwagner1

    mwagner1 Senior Member

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    I am wondering if Espen Oenio will soon join the elite ranks of yacht designers such a Winch, Bannenberg, etc???

    Some of his designs are pretty cool looking!!

    Cheers,

    Mark
  19. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Sure, Espen is today among the most recognized yacht designers. He is a naval architect and makes exterior styling, but not interior design as with Winch and Bannenberg.

    A yacht by Oeino that comes close to a Designer Yacht is Skat. She has several new design elements, like the high and crisp bowline, the stealth-like shapes on the superstructure and the glasswalled salon up in the air.

    The interior was made by Marco Zanini and interior decorator Flavia Alves de Souza, following a theme from the home of the owner, where also the grey color is found.

    Here is Skat visiting Stockholm in August 2004.

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  20. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    With Skat I suspect that Oeino also had a bit of play with the hull design. There are so many vertical windows in the hull under the pilothouse that they take on the appearance of a deck of their own. In contrast to just poking holes in the hull. Interesting effect.

    Kelly