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Damsel in distress-53 Hatteras 32v system ?s

Discussion in 'Hatteras Yacht' started by HollyonVirtue, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. HollyonVirtue

    HollyonVirtue New Member

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    Again, many thanks. Guys, I used to fill my own battery cells, so I do know the job. I do go away for long periods of time, so that is when I'd have someone else do it. Those mothers had been taking at least 6 gallons of water per week when the captain (yes, captain) I had hired said not to bother, and I started looking into a replacement system/cause for failure.
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    There is nothing to understand about a 32v system that any decent mechanic couldn't. It s really the same a any DC system, just a different voltage.

    Yes, with regular lead acid batteries you will have to top them off anywhere from monthly to every 3 months deoending on the charger, if you don't, plays will be exposed and th batteries will fail.

    i m not famliar with the charger you have but some chargers do tnd to cook batteries faster. Smart three stage chargers do not and with those you don't have to top off th batteries as often.

    If you have an older charger, indeed installing a timer is a work around to protect your batteries. That s why I did some 10 years ago on mine, setting it up to charger about 8 hours a day. As a suit I top off the batteries evey 3 months instead of monthly

    A good option for batteries is to use 8v golf cart batteries, 4 on each bank. They are designed for deep cycling yet can handle starting duties. Mines last 4 years in average. Brand doesn't really matter much, exide, interstate whatever. Batteries and bulb plus is a nationwide chain that can supply them, about $120 a piece.

    Rolls batteries are probably the only one that are better than the regular golf cart batteries but they cost a lot more. I do not believe they are worth the extra $ as they don't necessarily last twice as long, for twice the cost.

    There is nothing wrong about the 32v system, th only drawback is that it may be a little harder to find bulbs and other parts like bilge pumps. So you may have to order thm instead of walking into the local west marine....no big deal.. Converting to 24v is way too costly as it s not just the starters and alternators, but also all th bilge pumps, water pump, heads, bulbs etc... Expensive and unnecessary

    One other possible issue is that at some point someone may have installed 3 12 batteries on each bank, making 36v thinking it would be ok. I have seen it or head of it a few times and it doesn't work as the charger will not work properly.
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    6 gallons? I wonder if you don't have 12v 8Ds... Or you could also have a leaking cell although you woudl find acid under the batteries. Just measure the batteies and compare with specs on any website.

    Yes, you need the charger on so your bilge pumps, and lights etc work. But keeping it on charging dead dry batteries is going to damage the charger eventually. Bite the bullet, and change the batteries
  4. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    That's pretty excessive. Charger failing, wrong batteries, something wrong...

    And then of course the "not to bother..." advice is also part of the problem.

    Might be useful to copy down and then report some battery numbers; maybe folks here can confirm what you've got, see if there's a mismatch issue...

    -Chris
  5. Chasm

    Chasm Senior Member

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    Since there seem to be some discrepancies the next step should be to find out which batteries are actually installed.

    So what does the sticker say? Manufacturer and type.
    Is there an obvious date code on the batteries? (If not the location can be found with the information from the sticker)
    At the same time note type and model of the charger. If there are obvious settings also note them.

    Going through 6 gallons of water a week is NOT normal. Sounds like a defect to me.
    Worse, sounds actually like major defect, aka boat fire waiting to happen. And one of the usual culprits to boot: defect battery charger. (The other big ones are IIRC electrical space heaters and cooking accidents)

    A quick check IF you have a volt meter AND know how to use it:
    If the charger is off keep it off for a moment longer.
    Measure the voltage at the battery charger, on the battery side. (Or at the batteries, if they are more accessible.)
    DC Voltage?
    Turn the charger on.
    Measure the voltage at the battery charger, on the battery side:
    DC Voltage?
    AC Voltage? (still battery side!)

    That should be enough to ID major problems.


    On the converting to 24V topic. One of the questions I would ask myself is how much of the 32V equipment is left after the lightning strike. Together with the answer to the question if the insurance is willing to pay for 24V instead of 32V gear for the defects that should give a direction.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Update
    They are 8V195, 4 cell, 8 volt, 19.5 inch case batteries.
    The Charles charger has cooked them near dry & took 8 gallons of water to flood them again.
    Charles charger buzzing like it's under a heavy load but the amp meter just up a tad. Output 36.5Vdc at the batteries with a slight ACv, 60 hz ripple on top.

    New charger and batteries quote going out tomorrow.

    All devices are original designed 32Vdc systems.

    Great looking ship.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  7. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Have you solved your 32V charging/battery problems? The electrician is on my 1984 Bertram 54' now. The rewire includes new batteries, inverters, generators, alternators, starters, alarm system etc.

    Over the years with this boat, it has been nice to stay with the original 32V system because the systems are setup for that. There is a powerful 24V system run as a step down from the 32V. The 24V system primarily runs the upgraded Raritan toilets and the Davit. The generators have 12V alternators on them and feed the 12V system.

    The electrician is installing the Charles 9000 using 8 of the 8V batteries .. also installing an isolator / booster.

    The result will be a system using twin 50A shore power from port or starboard side that is then boosted to 240V and if that is not available, I'll run one of the 20kw generators.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I can not put an exact finger on the problem but there seems to be no automatic function in a Charles charger.
    Unlike the old charger/converters of the old days; Raritan's and other automatic/regulated chargers where voltage & current come way down to a bare trickle and were adjustable.

    This is the second Charles charger I have witnessed that cooks (bakes & fries) batteries. I do have to point out this Charles stuff was on 24x7 as an automatic charger would be. Charles did recommend a programmable timer switch similar to yard lights or water heater timers to reduce the cooking time.

    In the meantime, our Damsel in Distress is researching AGM batteries, chargers and options.
  9. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Do you mean the charger doesn't automatically come down to the appropriate float voltage for a 32v system? (What is that voltage, anyway?)

    Or do you mean it does nominally come down to the correct float voltage, but that's still too high?

    Or...?

    -Chris
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    IMO, the charger does not come down to a float/trickle level. There is just something in that Ferroresonant design that I can not explain, but know to stay away from.

    It is hard for me to state these things as the Charles charger is most recognized and easily purchased (cheapest). Charles makes many other fancy chargers, Just not in 32v systems.

    LaMarche will build you a 32vDC smart series 41 charger. in 3 to 4 weeks.
    I'd go there.

    If were going to spend more time on this other than the OP, Lets open another thread.

    ,Ralph
  11. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I have asked the question to my electrician who happens to be Enrique with Yacht Electric. He was with Bertram in the 80's when your boat was built .. and most importantly .. current with regard to bringing these boats up to date.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    :DWho said my boat was outdated?? It a 1978 model also. Fancy '80s model are to new..:p

    It works, therefore it's up to date.

    Rather spend the money on fuel than a paint job. Oh, Dry Tortugas & Keys this year.

    ,rc
  13. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I knew that was coming .. sorry .. didn't mean that.

    I mean .. working with the original systems of the boat and integrating them nicely with todays technology ... then maintaining the system.

    I don't like the smell of cooking batteries and topping them off is easy on my boat but still not something I like doing. I don't want to learn that the Charles 9000 I'm installing now has no proper float mode. My old Sentry system maintained my last new set of 8V's well so I'll have something to compare it to.
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I was having fun with ya.

    There ya go.
    The old Sentry chargers are great. I wonder if you could just order a 24Vdc regulator board for them.
  15. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I just think the current Charles 32V 9000 40A must work well with the 8V's or I don't think the electrician would be installing it. I do think the Sentry is still available. I will look forward to the electricians perspective.
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Well, our OP, Damsel in Distress thought exactly that also. 3 sets of 8V195s has been cooked by that same charger new almost 4 years ago. I have witness another battery BBQ by that same charger.
    I understood Sentry was still around. My vender offered me a 32Vdc Sentry quote. Newmar makes them also.



    If you're keeping 32v, find a Sentry dealer or look at the NewMars.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  17. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Ah, didn't realize it's a ferroresonant charger...

    Just passing curiosity, given that the current (pun) 12v and 24v Charles chargers have a good reputation.

    -Chris
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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  19. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Dometic seems to still sell the Sentry line of chargers and it specifically says in the literature, "when it reaches full charge, total shutdown and no trickle charge .. does not boil batteries".

    I'm pointing this out to my electrician.
  20. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    A ferroresonant transformer / capacitor is nothing more the a line, load stabilizer that in lay terms uses a transformer with an extra set of windings for a capacitor that keeps the load voltage stable when the line (input ) voltage drops. A good scenario would be when your plugged into a dock that has voltage drops @ 5 to 7 PM or "Brown outs" when the surrounding community fires up the kitchens and AC's in their houses and your 220 single phase line voltage goes from 110 v per leg to 99v per leg the capacitor will discharge in a ferroresonant circuit and keep your load side output stable @ 110v for a short period as to not affect your rate of charge. There's a bit more too it technically but your eyes would glass over as its rather boring stuff. A ferroresonant type charger would have nothing to do with overcharging or boiling your batteries dry as that's a totally different section that would include the chargers regulators and sensing taps.