Crew Prejudice? nationality's etc

I believe he refers to: U.S. DOT Navigation Rules , 26.07 "No person may use the services of, and no person may serve as a person required to maintain a listening watch under section 5 of the Act, 33 U.S.C. section 1204 unless he can speak the English language." Yes, that does not make it "the official international maritime language".

Hi,

I would like to point out that the word International refers to a lot of the world that is not covered by US Domestic rules and regulations ( not officially anyway) so as far as I see it the US DOT Rules cannot be said to apply there as a blanket statement.

I do however stand to be corrected if this should prove to not be the case.

My point exactly. However, since English is the most widely used language internationally it does pay to have some English available for the radio. DK of any regulation requiring it though.

SOLAS

http://www.icomia.com/technical-info/docs/SOLASV.pdf

33 CFR 26.07

http://navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/regulations/33CFR026/33CFR26.htm

Thank you Marmot. Apparently Solas regulation 14 states English is required.

IMO, I can't find the citation, but we covered this in BRM.

Edit: Looks like Marmot found it in the SOLAS rules.

Hi,

Not neccessarily:

Chapter 14.4 On ships to which chapter I applies, English shall be used on the bridge as the working language for bridge-to-bridge and bridge-to-shore safety
communications as well as for communications on board between the pilot
and bridge watchkeeping personnel**, unless those directly involved in the
communication speak a common language other than English.

Right, and in practicality what that means is if you're Belgian and pulling into Zeebrugge, you can talk to port control in Flemish, you aren't required to use English. OTOH, all the port controllers in Zeebrugge have to be able to communicate in English (and can). The common language in international shipping be it sea or air is English. What else should it be? Esperanto?

Hi,

That may be the case but you posted earlier that English was the official international maritime language, something that it is clearly shown not to be by the SOLAS extract above.

There is no law forcing you to use English to communicate as long as all parties involved in said communication understand the same language.

STCW I/14

English Language

The knowledge, understanding and proficiency standards in Part A of the STCW Code stipulate that familiarity with the English language is required by;


Officers in charge of a navigational watch sufficient to use charts and other nautical publications, to understand meteoro-logical information and messages concerning ship's safety and operation, to communicate with other ships and coast stations and to perform the officer's duties also with a multilingual crew, including the ability to use and understand the IMO Standard Marine Communication Phrases.

Officers in charge of an engineering watch sufficient to enable the officer to use engineering publications and to perform engineering duties.

GMDSS radio operators both written and spoken for the communication of information relevant to safety of life at sea.

So, you're approaching say the Bahamas straight or the English channel, your ARPA flashes and you're going to call the other vessel to make passing arrangements, what is the default language to make first contact with according to that rule? It's English. IMO signatory Bridge Officers are required to have a working knowledge of English as a condition of a STCW 95 compliant license. In the practical everyday working maritime world, English is the default language for hailing. If it is recognized (or known ahead of time) that the station you are calling knows another common more native tongue to you, you may use that language, no problem. The default language to use for communications according to IMO is English, that makes it the official language. It's pretty simple. There may also be an annex in the 72 Colregs that gives a mention to this as well.

I agree, every freightor or cruise ship on ARPA that has hailed me, always hailed in English.......The only time you would hail in a different language might be a French Marina or to that effect where you know the country they are in and local language spoken.

The French are still a bit touchy about that... They were in the running for the official language, but it was decided to go with English. Up until I guess the mid 70s, French was the international/inter continental most commonly spoken language, especially among the international trade and business set. Many a Frenchman is still bitter

Hi,

If you are old enough to remember this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Sea_Empress

you might also recall the use of a Chinese Tug as first responder with enough power to be effective early on where there was No English spoken aboard, a cook from a Chinese Take Away in Milford Haven was used to try and communicate with the Tug, unfortunately he didn't know anything about marine matters and confusion ensued.

I do not recall anyone form the Tug being prosecuted for not speaking English.

Also, If you come from anywhere and apply to the UK for a CEC you are asked to take an English Language Test so if it was a requirement for the Holders of STCW 95 Certs to speak English why do they insist on this even for those coming from the Commonwealth countries where English is the usual mother tongue?

Who would prosecute and in what court? The only enforcement power that IMO has is through UN sanctions on the signatory member state. China doesn't always bother to play by all the rules.

As for the MCA testing for English, that is part of them trying to show they have met the burden of proof making sure that the people they licensed know English.

Look, I really don't care, you can believe what you want and interpret the SOLAS regs any way you want.

and so can you!

Talk about a de-rail! A thread on Nationality discrimination has turned into 2 pages argueing about what the official bridge communication language is!

back to the subject at hand-

It is common for one nationality in the crews quarters to dominate the feel and tradition of the CQ's, thats why my foreign crew were concerned, also they might have felt they were going to be replaced by US crew if that was my intention, which it was not.

I was interested to hear that the upcharge for hiring a US Captain was 2K, yes that is a small number to pay for a Captain, but would you be willing to pay that for a deckhand, stew or mate? I know of someone who is looking for a job as a Captain or Mate on big boats and states that they are willing to pay for the upcharge themselves. I guess if you need a job you might be willing to do this. I thought it was a bad idea to state they are willing to do this, but I was told that has been used as an excuse against them.

I would hope that all understand that they will get exactly what they pay for in this guy. Someone who should be cleaning toilets. In the mean time I hope this "captain" is black listed by all who might refer. Maybe a little "re-education" is called for. This guy not only hurts himself, but all other captains who are looking for work.

OK, the most peoples on this world are chineses

Only about 20 percent of the world's population is Chinese, and even they speak something like 6 different languages.