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Costa Concordia sinks off the coast of Italy

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by Fishtigua, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'd love to think the Carnival group would learn but they've really not shown any tendency to do so from the various issues that they've had over the years. They have 101 ships, revenues over $15 Billion, profits have average around $1.5 billion the last five years, they carry over 10 million passengers a year, and they have 93,000 employees.

    As to their Costa line, here is a paragraph from Carnival's annual report:

    Also during 2013, Costa Cruises continued to experience a strong brand perception recovery, aided by the dramatic parbuckling operation which righted Costa Concordia. The brand recovered more than half of the reputation it lost in 2012, achieved a 4 percent improvement in revenue yields and returned to profitability, despite the sluggish economic environment
    in Southern Europe.


    Best as I can tell, the cruise lines remain answerable to no one. Maybe small fines and penalties here and there but they avoid employment laws and health standards and continue their merry way.
  2. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    If you Google 'Cruise ship employment scams' Carnival and Costa come very near the top of the list.

    Fine fellows to invest in.
  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well, after all that's the American way of doing business for you, folks...
    Pretty sure, Giacomo Costa rolled over in his Grave that night, together with the Concordia.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Given the way half that stuff is worded when it comes in the inbox I seriously doubt anyone from either line is actually tapping the keys to form those letters.
  5. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    CC in Genua

    CC has entered the harbour of Genua and is behind the breakwater. So, at least the enviroment is safe now.

    I am very interested where the scrapping will be taking place, as there is now dry dock in that area, big enough for CC. Maybe they are just closing one harbour basin behind her and pump it empty. Why not, somebody will pay for it :rolleyes:.

    Attached Files:

  6. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Cruise

    I often wonder what Port Everglades and the Port of Miami would look like especially at the weekend with no cruise ships there.

    Did I not read that there were 33,000 passengers at Port Everglades on one weekend alone. How did they get there, oh yeah most flew in so what would Fort Lauderdale airport also look like with no cruise passengers.

    I guess all the airlines, pilots, airport workers, cab drivers, store workers, ship suppliers, chandlers, ship repairers, port workers to name just a few are all foreign and not paying any taxes.

    Would Miami Heat have won any NBA championships without the cruise lines ?.

    Would all those exploited cruise ship employees be able to send monthly payments back to there third world countries without the cruise lines.

    Would Jon Doe and his family from the mid west be able to ever see the water never mind spend 10 days cruising around if it was not for the likes Of Carnival.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    More disgusting practices than one can imagine. From employment to health to dealing with vendors and customers.

    I guess taxes or rather lack thereof is the one that upsets me most. They make $1.5 billion a year and pay zero taxes. Oh they did pay $4,000 a couple of years ago. This isn't just no US taxes, but no UK, no Italy, no Australian. Special provisions for cruise lines in the US. In other countries tonnage provisions allow them to escape.

    Ted Arison even renounced his US citizenship to try to avoid estate taxes but lived 9 months short of the needed 10 years. But this is after making his money in the US and especially by Carnival's success as a US stock.

    And for those curious about the loss of the Concordia. Well, actually they recognized a gain of $17 million as the amount the insurance exceeded the carrying value of the boat. Otherwise they did recognize a loss on the incident of $28 million. Their deductible for all the injuries and deaths (32) was $10 million.

    So, Concordia was nothing more than a blip on their radar. Other incidents have blown over even easier for them. Carnival Splendor (a former Costa ship) was left floating and stranded in the Pacific ocean by an engine room fire and towed to San Diego. Carnival Triumph was left floating and stranded off the coast of Mexico and eventually towed to Mobile. In spite of the fact they were near Mexico they towed to Mobile to save money although the passengers had to suffer for much longer in doing so.

    So anyone who thinks any lesson is learned by the Concordia incident is, unfortunately, mistaken. If anything, they just learned how easily they could weather such an incident.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Certainly you're correct that they contribute to the economy. But then if you followed that logic you could say many shouldn't pay taxes. And as to the Heat, the public built the arena. And the owners benefit from the appreciation in value of the team. Yes, if they ever do sell it, their will be taxes. The fact is that most companies pay taxes regardless of the services they provide to benefit the public. Cruise lines don't. And it's not just US taxes they don't pay. They don't pay anywhere for the most part.

    The issue though is Concordia and did they learn from it. Ultimately, they suffered very little and likely learned little.
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, certainly one of the largest salvages ever. It will be interesting to see what now as the vessel is there, so now what kind of thing. Next phase to come.
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    If it is floating they could strip most of it down while it is afloat and by the time they get everything above the waterline off the rest could probably be lifted by a semi sub or if as the load comes off it were patched inside (weld the water tight doors in the damaged compartments etc) it could float on its own fairly easily.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree that Carnival learned very little from this. Part of it is the fault of the public. They keep taking Carnival cruises and keep paying for the tickets even though all 3 incidents were highly publicised.

    I also agree that the cruise ship industry does bring a good amount of business to Fort Lauderdale and Miami. But is it better? I was born and raised in Fort Lauderdale, and really a whole lot hasn't changed industry-wise since the 1980's when there wasn't a lot of cruise ship business. People spent more time IN Fort Lauderdale and it was more of a vacation spot than just a place to jump on the ship. Really what do we gain, some flights ok, a very short taxi ride, ok, some passangers might spend 1 night in a hotel and eat dinner at 1 restaurant. Las Olas is still the same for the most part. We still had a lot of hotels back then, and the town is pretty much the same town it always was......it really hasn't grown immensly in offerings since the 1980's, if not less. We had many more things to do around Ft. Lauderdale for vacationers back then. More charter sportfish, six flags atlantis, grand prix race o rama, the monkey zoo in the port, etc etc,....those are all gone.

    The US does get some tax revenue from the cruise ship ticket taxes, airplane ticket taxes and so forth, but again not as much as they really should.

    I also agree that there isn't enough regulation on the Cruise Ships and they should pay taxes somewhere. Like really, if you're picking up and dropping passangers off in a U.S. port on the same trip, and that is your business trip after trip after trip, then that ship should be U.S. flagged, and owned by a U.S. subsidiary, and USCG inspected, and should pay U.S. corporate taxes. It's not like a freighter that makes 15 stops in 15 different countries before it gets back here.
  12. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Taxes

    So nothing is said about Apple and the billions of untaxed dollars lying in off shore accounts, I seem to remember Ireland being mentioned ?. The list of American companies now based overseas for tax reasons is endless.

    These companies may have found ways not to pay direct taxes but the economic impact of there success is very evident by the number of jobs created not on the ships but shore based and all that tax money is collected here.
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I am sure you are not the only one to feel this way so why don't you start a cruise line?

    Or... Where are the US Flag Cruise Lines these days?
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Is there a large US flag Cruise line???
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're changing the goal post.

    I agree with everything you've said here. The problem is our Corporate tax rate is too high, and one of the highest in the world. If it was cheap or fair, then I'm sure most companies would pay it instead of working so hard to avoid it. If you cut it in half and the tax code was simplified, where it was on par with the rest of the world, most companies would pay it here and total tax revenue collected would double.
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    From what I reading, These cruise ships come & go free?
    Who pays for the port service? That berth can not be free. Somebody has to pay for the bottom lease. I would hope some tax and/or fee income (Way above any transient rate) comes from the line when they come and go.
    It's just hard to understand that other than ticket sales, the lines pay nothing else.
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Have you not seen them bunkering or loading supplies? Crew come and go this requires agents fees and airline tickets, there is no such thing as a free lunch
  18. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Could have sworn I posted this early this morning ...

    As little regard as I have for Carnival, the Arison clan, and the cruise industry in general, it is hardly their fault a bunch of scumbag bottom feeders are trying to rip off ignorant job hunters.

    Carnival is probably the best known and most familiar to anyone who wants to work on a cruise ship so using that name is the best bait. Don't blame Carnival for the actions of the only people on Earth worth less than an American congressman.
  19. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    The PC Goblins might have staubsaugered it up.
  20. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well, the last time I've been at FLIBS, there weren't many US flagged pleasure boats either...