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Costa Concordia sinks off the coast of Italy

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by Fishtigua, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. luckylg

    luckylg New Member

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    And this is both stupid and tiresome.

    The value of the work by the seiner was likely negotiated in advance of the commencement of work. But, in the event it was not, case history will guide the decision. The value will likely be exactly what it would have been if the opportunity to negotiate ahead of time were available. In many cases there is an "uplift" of some sort to account for the additional risk taken by a vessel not normally equipped for the work undertaken in a chance salvage such as this. All members of the crew are entitled to a share of the proceeds. Typically the company and crew split the award 50/50 and the crew's division of their share is based both on their position, their role in the actual salvage work, and their seniority on the vessel.

    An excellent read about non-salvage vessels and crew undertaking (and being rewarded) for a salvage is the appropriately named Capt. Skip Strong's "In Peril." His account is excellent and his decisions, which I personally have heard him apologize for in a room full of professional salvors, were in the best spirit of the law of the sea. That is, you help when you can as best as you are able. Strongly recommended.
  2. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Now that you have cleared up the salvage, there is also the maths. The tuna used as a comparitive price on weights to cost in this post was purchased for promotion and as charity by the owner of a sushi restaurant chain. Using this cost per kilo would mean a cube of sushi would cost more than $200. This is clearly stated in the article.

    I believe you have summed it up perfectly with the first line of your post.
  3. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    K1W1 wrote:
    K1W1, you're probably already aware, but "proper" tugs designed and built to tow surface vessels are generally measured and compared by their "bollard pull" (as opposed to "bollocks pull"). Shaft horse-power whether on a fishing vessel or yacht is not a suitable comparison. I recall when the S/Y Mirabella "X" ended up on the rocks at Cap Ferrat and a motor yacht (bigger than the TREVIGNON) attempted to help out. From what I recall, at least 1 bollard on the aft deck of the yacht "failed" and their intervention proved worthless at the end of the day. You cannot readily compare "proper" tugs to other vessels, whether yachts, fishing boats etc. on the basis of just total shaft HP.

    luckylg wrote:
    luckylg, so please make up your mind as to whether Costa Cruises already signed an "open form" salvage agreement with the French fishing vessel TRVIGNON (according to Marmot who has yet to share his information confirming that claim). According to your own previous post/s, "the value of the work by the seiner was likely negotiated in advance of the commencement of work" which would be quite contrarian to the principles of the "open form" in general...?!

    Kafue and luckylg, "so sorry" to remain stupid, tiresome and a pain in the ass to boot...? I certainly hope that Costa Cruises and any salvors / arbitrage courts etc. eventually do take into account that passengers and crew are "human-beings" and are probably worth even more than "Blue-fin tuna" valuations per pound, whether or not at special auction for charity purposes...?! :p

    I believe that I've summed it up perfectly...
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Are you comparing a yacht to an ocean going fishing vessel designed to tow heavy nets?
  5. luckylg

    luckylg New Member

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    Had you actually read my posts, or bothered to look at any of the three open forms to which I posted links, you would see that an open form does not necessarily exclude a pre-determined, negotiated pricing. Quite the contrary, there is a space provided for a preset price or even for a day rate price.

    I think this would be a good time to remind everyone what, exactly, makes an airship work...

    [​IMG]
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Unless I missed it somewhere, nobody has compared the seiner to any tug or has found any reason to bother.

    The operative element in this issue is that the seiner performed adequately and towed the cruise ship to port at around 6 knots, a performance comparable to that expected of the pair of tugs that showed up later.

    If you care to take the time, rather than simply argue, you will find that most of those seiners are also rated at their bollard pull since their main purpose in life is towing very large loads.

    And as far as the LOF thing that has you so disturbed, if you can show otherwise please do. I am not fighting to be "right" on that issue and stand to lose nothing if I am wrong. If that point is so important to your emotional well-being and social status I suggest you might further that objective more effectively by researching the issue rather than trolling on this forum.

    I know that I, and probably many other readers would not miss you while you are away seeking the truth.
  7. luckylg

    luckylg New Member

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    Here, here and amen.
  8. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    I LOL'ed. :cool:
  9. revdcs

    revdcs Senior Member

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    Me too!:D

    Kevin, The Allegra conversation has totally hijacked the Concordia thread. Any chance of hiving it off into its own thread - then those interested in progress with the Concordia can ignore the 'hot air'?
  10. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Marmot wrote:
    Well, you probably missed this post from K1W1:
    By the way, I for one (there may be others) are still waiting for some form of affirmation concerning your statement on 03/03/2012:
    Lastly, there are some important differences between "airships" and "hot-air balloons", just like "proper" tugs purpose-built for towage, compared to fishing vessels / pleasure yachts, regardless of their total shaft HP. Frankly, I'm quite dismayed by the most recent postings in reply to my own, and the ignorance of some here who are visibly confusing the length of (their own) shafts and their supposed "YF total shaft HP ratings"...

    I will not be bullied or cowered by the likes of revdcs, Marmot or luckylg. Kevin as a moderator presumably has the authority to temporarily / permanently ban me from these forums. Instead of encouraging the miscreants who cannot tell the difference between an airship and hot-air balloon for a cheap laugh. He might have asked Marmot for more info concerning his post that Costa Cruises had accepted an "open form". Or berate luckylg for re-posting a link concerning Lloyd's "open form" which I'd already supplied before. Or merely chiding everyone involved to "get back in line", instead of which "the prefect" joined the bullies.

    No worries. If so many of you (have not seen any contributors appearing in my defense) think so little of my contributions on YF, that I'm somehow perturbing a close, tightly-knitted and docile community with too many illogical or ill-thought out posts, then by all means petition YF to ban me. But the amount of ridicule that I've experienced here most recently leads me to believe that some moderators have a masochistic streak runnuing in their own veins. Why ban airship when he gets at least 5 negative replies for each post? It's all traffic. If he can cope, so can we?! Except that I've reached my limit.
  11. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Airship
    You would expect that IF this was a “tightly-knitted and docile community” that “bully” and team up to exclude outsiders, then it would be felt by members like myself, as I am a non-professional on this forum with a passion for boating, rather than one of the professionals who are the main contributors.
    I have no hesitation making a post in fear that my opinion maybe shot down or wrong.

    Fact is there is no grouping and docile community here.
    It is very enjoyable when there are differing opinions and arguments over posts.

    IMHO you have created your own problem with the spirit in which you post. There is a bitterness and antagonism. At first I thought you may simply have a communication problem, sometimes a different nationality can come over as being blunt or arrogant when they really mean no harm, but you slam into members, especially the ones with the deepest knowledge like a man with a large chip on the shoulder.

    Anyone can Google answers or turn to Wikipedia to pose as an expert. However it doesn’t work with people with real qualifications.

    You get personal then bemoan the response you get.
    Anyway, I am done with responding to your posts as I think it is what encourages you.
    Wishing you a better life!
  12. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Your perspective is disappointing because I GUARANTEE you, controversy does NOT drive traffic unless it is *relevant* to the forum or thread subject. Political rants do more turn off readers than any other subject on a forum. I am strongly opposed to these types of threads because they create a rift among otherwise like-minded people. This is often the demise of a forum.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is what makes a community thrive and varying points of view should be embraced. The only reason a member is removed is due to malicious intent, promotion or fraud. To everyone participating in this thread... PLEASE be respectful of other members!

    Airship, your are clearly an articulate, well-written, passionate person. We don't want to lose you, but this forum is best left to big boat discussions. :)
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    give it a rest, already!
  14. carelm

    carelm Senior Member

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    Apparently the Costa Concordia crew members are being pressured to accept a settlement offer. This offer requires them to forfeit any future claims. Just on the surface, this seems to be a low-ball offer.

    Costa crew facing alleged settlement pressure - FT.com


  15. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    Airship, take it easy mate.
    When a significant portion of a given community reacts negatively to you, it might indeed mean you stumbled upon "close, tightly-knitted and docile community with too many illogical or ill-thought out posts."
    But it also might well mean you're on a kind of a dumb streak posting stuff people with some idea are plain allergic to.
    Usually it's wise to double-check whether if it might be the latter situation before going all emotional:cool:
  16. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Not far to tow it to the scrapping yards in India,

    I spent a few months in Mahe in '97 there was a freighter that had suffered an engine room fire anchored outside the reef. One day a tug came and got it and took it to Aalang.

    Something I will never forget about it was the infestation of spiders the size of dinner plates and every few days a guy would go aboard and top up the fuel in the one white light it used to show. He always seemed to spend a but of time with a broom clearing these spiders off the bottom of the gangway that was hanging over the side before climbing onboard.
  18. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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  19. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    There are commercially caught bluefin tuna in the Indian Ocean? Is that what the seiner was catching so that we can realistically apply these numbers? Sheesh.:rolleyes:
  20. carelm

    carelm Senior Member

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    They could be going after Southern Bluefin Tuna. They are in the Indian Ocean.

    Ocean Tracks | Southern Bluefin Tuna