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Chiller help

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by Seasmaster, Mar 4, 2019.

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  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I vote this for the understatement of the year!

    Looks like beautiful work professionally done with no skimping on $$. I just remembered when I showed Marmot your boat and the only thing he didn't like was the ac black foam rubber insulation. Bet your new ac would bring him a thumbs up. I know this seems trivial for the scope of work you've shown us, but I like the new salon lamp. I see fingerprints from Charlie's Loocker.[/QUOTE]

    If the builder did the air conditioning install properly in the first place, there would be no reason that the OP would be doing any of this work on a 7 year old boat, nor spending a huge expense, nor tearing the entire interior apart, nor a huge waste of his time. All of the air conditioning should have been working 100% on a 7 year old yacht.
  2. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Yea!!! Capt J and I finally agree! :)
  3. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    "Cliff-Notes" version of ER chillers

    BEFORE:
    [​IMG]


    AFTER:

    [​IMG]

    Insulation on-going. Next set of pictures will show that task.
  4. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    I see fingerprints from Charlie's Loocker.[/QUOTE]

    Very close. Charlie's closed, and one of the workers "took over" and has her own place: J. Balcazar Designs which is in the same shopping center as Charlie's was. Good stuff; good service; a joy to work with. She was at FIBS.
  5. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    So here are some pictures of insulation in the ER,

    01IMG_3295.jpeg

    And main trunk line to starboard

    02IMG_3296.jpeg


    Note the builder's original valve with a ferrous metal nut on the red handle below!! WTF?
    (Next haul-out replacement, I guess)

    03IMG_3297.jpeg

    On the AHU in the master's cabin. . .

    04IMG_3298.jpeg

    And lastly, there's always left-overs. . .

    IMG_3293.jpeg

    More to follow. . .
  6. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    IMG_3299.jpeg Here's a screen shot of the controller. . . (Now I have to go to AC school to figure out what the significance is of the the various pressures & temps represent in the HEAT or COOL mode. Since the chiller is a variable speed, it makes it even more challenging to understand. . . For instance in the HEAT mode, the chiller was running at 45-50 % but the discharge pressure was 406 with a discharge temp of 118. . .(the picture is not representing that incident).
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Please tell us more about the black and white pipe wraps.
    You mentioned Marmot had a black wrap comment?
  8. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    I dunno. Maybe Cap'n J will chime in. I don't know who Marmot is. But what the heck. "Black & white" is formal wear!!! LOL Very chic!!
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I did find one of your post that read that the copper came with (the white?) foam already on it.
    The black foam is near SOP on most installs.
    Just wondering what's up?
    Maybe your unknown guest will chime in.
    I have missed his comments for a while now.
  10. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    I found the white quite by accident. I was online looking for the lowest price for copper pipe. Since I needed about 200 feet I was going to industrial sites.

    The one outfit I found offered the copper with insulation. It just so happened it was white. It was less expensive than it would’ve been to buy copper and then insulate it with the standard black stuff available
  11. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    John, I didn't realize Marmot was before your time, sorry. If we had a show of hands of who misses Marmot on YF, I bet Carl's server woud crash. Probably the most knowledgable boat guy ever. Do a YF search.

    I took him through your boat before it was yours and he loved it. Came back again to show his wife who is also a marine engineer. And his only negative comment about the boat was when he opened up the cabinet in the galley just forward of the engine room hatch, he saw the black "spongy" insulation and said "not good." Or maybe it was the way it was wrapped, but I think it was the material he objected to.
  12. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    Gee, in hind-sight, maybe he knew the AC system was sick!! The original washer/dryer was removed by owner #2 before I bought the boat, so maybe that was the space. There were AC lines running from the stbd trunk line to the wheelhouse AHU unit in there. Either that, or you are referring to the AHU space that was just above the washer/dryer space.
  13. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    You MUST use closed cell insulation. If you put the insulation in water and it soaks it up like a sponge and you can ring it out, its open cell and not for AC or refrigeration.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Marmot was very knowledgable in some aspects of marine engineering. However, he was not completely knowledgable in all of them, yet spoke like he was God and was. Operation of systems and actual usage of some of the systems on yachts under 80' was one area I found him giving poor advice, which might have worked out great if you were on a 50 meter, but not a 15 meter. His biggest problem was the way he belittled and talked to many other members and basically spoke to people like crap on many occasions.

    That being said. I've been on and run a few Ellings, their quality is ok nothing more, but their engineering is SERIOUSLY lacking when it comes to air conditioning and especially electrical as well as how and where they mount things. I ran one of them, that you had to physically unplug the shorepower cord from shore before starting the generator because Elling hot wired both feeds directly to the panel, with no electrical selector switch or breakers or safety to go from shorepower OR generator. So If you plugged shorepower in with generator running or opposite, it would fry everything on the boat, the shorepower cord, and electrical on land. Why would any sane person even install chillers on a yacht so small, so many components to go wrong, much costlier, and more junk all over the boat etc. etc. Quite honestly, 4 self contained direct expansion units throughout the boat, a few sea water lines, electric and your done. Chillers are always a lot more labor and maintenance intensive than normal units and are always a headache. Above 70' they're necessary due to energy consumption, but under that only a huge headache. Not to mention they're simply a strange boat, really narrow side walk ways to get to the bow, weird aft deck, really far to the water on the stern, hard to get on and off with the canoe stern deal...……...
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Looks real good

    are the white rubber hoses condensate drains in some of the pictures? They don’t seem to have much slope. Sooner or later they will clog. Every boat I ve run or owned had issues with clogging condensate. When I installed a chiller system on my old Hatt I made sure I had a lot of slope... and even then I had a short flat run in the ER before the sea chest... that clogged up after a couple of years.
  16. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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  17. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    ...used reinforced hose, double clamping, and Armorflex at the air handlers.
  18. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    A good solution to get rid of all the sweating metal valves, some hose clamps and the tedious job of insulating. I like the chiller system, access to the loop components can be an issue.
  19. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    Oh yeah, it's closed cell insulation.
  20. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    Good eyes!! We ran the best slope available, and unlike the original installation which only connected one condensate drain line per AHU, we ran CD lines to all available drains in the AHU condensate pans!! And, we flow tested them while at the dock. Now, when the boat's up on step, that's another matter. . . LOL. The builder had some of the lines drain fwd, and we did the best we could with what was available. However, like I said, water drained when tested.