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Checking what you have designed

Discussion in 'Yacht Designers Discussion' started by Teenna, Jul 4, 2006.

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  1. jmr, Nov 30, 2006
    #61
    jmr

    jmr New Member

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    Yes, your right Kelly, but it is not a really funny situation. A lot of people are very stressed because of the tight schedule and problems that were not talked to the customer. Know why? Because first priority is the customer itself, second priority the designer + na.......the engineer that have to construct are the lattest poor guy at the bottom ;-)

    I saw some work based on some drawings that are not seen in any actual general arrangement 2D drawings. It was a hand sketch of the designer and NOBODY feel responsible to actual the ga drawings! After a long discussion, the engineer has to construct based on those hand sketch with no rough dimension either. Now I know why I have not seen any designer walking in the engineering room all those years :p

    You do not need any horror movies.....



  2. Teenna, Nov 30, 2006
    #62
    Teenna

    Teenna New Member

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    The Designer MUST possess the NA capabilities in order to FOLLOW the design through the engineering phase with the shipyard until the final 3D surface model. DESIGNER MUST BE INVOLVED IN THE ENGINEERING LOOP through the whole engineering period, and his task is to KEEP THE CONTROL over the 3D aspect of the yacht, NEVER letting it out in the hands of Engineers WITHOUT his involvement.

    Here lies the problem. A real design job goes beyond the studio job. It goes beyond few visits in the yard during the construction. Small and romantic design offices cannot afford this process, they have no skillness and no people to do so...but...DESIGNER MUST and SHOULD REMAIN A CONDUCTOR OF THE ORCHESTRA: Car companies know that and they all employ independent designers for this sake.

    A problem I foresee is that some of the yacht designers are not ABLE to really work this way, and also their work get's SAVED buy skillful stuff of the yards, in a way they hide behind the yard's skillness and are just primadonna names.

    But in other hand, big yards like this small designers, so they CAN take over the design process and CONTROL it. They use designers just as dummies to give the name to the design.

    AND THIS SHOULD STOP, because an eye sees these projects, cold and boring, with an INDUSTRIAL CHIC design solution, made by little engineers solving things in order of the lesser resistance. No blame, they earn a fraction of the designers fee's why would they involve themselves more than what they consider necessary...
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  3. Teenna, Nov 30, 2006
    #63
    Teenna

    Teenna New Member

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    THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

    What I'm saying is that Designers, like Heywood (working with his wife only)are just romantic remains of the past. it's obvious that he and small design ofices like his CANNOT control the final GA and the final 3D. The real design offices of the future will run over this small offices like it happened in all other design fields.

    Go and see what Foster is doing in architecture, what Bangle or Ford team is doing in the car design, what Starck is doing in all the fields. In the yacht design Oino, Novulari&Lenard and New Cruise are developing in those directions. Or designers that set their ofices inside the yards, and follow those only, like Righini for Azimut and mangusta, Zuccon for Ferretti, Oleinski for Marine Projects, De Simone for Pershing, Nattuci for Benneti....not the same, but also in the car business there is the second design row, the mass production one, like VW, Toyota, PSA.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  4. Teenna, Nov 30, 2006
    #64
    Teenna

    Teenna New Member

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    1. If the 3D is not ok is because the designer wasn't developing it through the engineering stage actively involved. A sign of a primadonna designer that hides his low professionalism and incapability to really follow and develop the design through all the stages.

    2.If interior sucks is because kitch is still reigning this field. Some clients posses money but no taste. Why arguing, it's their interior that sucks. A good interior designer pilots the interior design into a quality interpretation of the owners style, if just executes the worst nightmare of the kitch disaster interiors like Marshall ore Bonneville, than we again talk about low professionalism and incapability to realy follow their work.

    3. Also interior designer should be actively involved in all the engineering loop, adapting his/hers work to the GA changes and construction modifications/development. A bad interior designer does "warm" renders and disappears, the interior contractors then develop the real interior design as they have to build it. Just another example of a remains from the past.

    4. We have to distinguish a 3D rhino model of the fantasy yacht, built for being rendered and thus seducing the future owner form a 3D surface model that is developed for building. In fact, what i'm saying is that the one to conduct this one should be without exceptions the designer.

    I repeat: The designer is the creator and therefore he/she should be the conductor of the whole process.

    Examples from the art: all the great composers were/are also discreet musicians, but ALL of them were able to conduct the orchestra into an execution of their work. All the great architects are daily surveying the projects in all stages until the completion of the building. All the great car designers are setting their offices ALSO inside the car company itself. All the great fashion designers are THERE behind the stage of the catwalk, SETTIN las correction with their bare hands before the model goes on the stage.

    Examples from the nature: You conceive kids, ok. Are you then letting their education in the hands of the engineers (school system) only or you actively collaborate as the main conductor of their education loop?

    Designers are conceivers, designs are their babies. They should love them. To complete the task, they have to bring them through all the stages of their development, assist them through it, until the end.

    Teenna dixit.
  5. AMG, Nov 30, 2006
    #65
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Hi Teenna,

    You are right in many things, but you are almost forgetting the most important factor, the talent of the designer.

    Some are more like artists, some are almost engineers and some are boatbuilders. Many are just good salesmen but very few have all of this, which is needed to achieve what you are saying.

    On top of this you must develop these skills in tune with the design trends, the engineering and construction techniques, the new propulsion systems, all the new safety rules and environmental issues. And you have to do it and market it (and yourself) in a way that is appealing to the rich and famous who should pay for it.

    If you could then push the limits and not just copy what already exists, you are probably a talented designer, and you have probably become quite old too... ;)

    /Lars
  6. Teenna, Nov 30, 2006
    #66
    Teenna

    Teenna New Member

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    Howeer, it's always a Designer's fault. Never the Yard's fault.

    Otherwise...just don't sign it.
  7. KCook, Nov 30, 2006
    #67
    KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    "A problem I foresee is that some of the yacht designers are not ABLE to really work this way, and also their work get's SAVED buy skillful stuff of the yards, in a way they hide behind the yard's skillness and are just primadonna names."

    Umm, fair point. But how is a customer, shopping for his first yacht (not very experienced) to know the difference? I think your analogy to the car design field misses the mark here. As the car builders already possess much experience and expertise in evaluating designs. Along with the capabilities of design firms. Completely different situation from an enthusiast looking for his first dream boat. It would be very interesting to see some sort of survey that sorts out the capabilities of the different yacht design firms. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

    Kelly
  8. yacht_designer, Nov 30, 2006
    #68
    yacht_designer

    yacht_designer New Member

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    i received after several months of first entering into this thread - some comment via email yesterday and was quite surprised. the thread grew [by topic name] and has points many people do not consider or know.

    thread also reads true to the process that it is all about talent and conveying the original design into a full floating impression. however each individual designer is responsible for the ability to make that happen; the problem lies in designs looking like others or look poorly executed.

    we have explored a good number of ways of checking your work, and that is the thread.

    personally, i got the first point, and i added to the topic. while i am not a NA, i can stand by my work in that i can instruct & lead a competent team [CAD/systems] of how to overcome the problems to make the plan a reality. i don't see KOGO as a problem yacht - by far the opposite! i do see things i prefer not to present to a client because it goes against my design beliefs in terms of comfort and enjoying the yacht underway at 20kn. [see, being a woman, we are always thinking how our hair will look... LOL]....
  9. yacht_designer, Dec 1, 2006
    #69
    yacht_designer

    yacht_designer New Member

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    pray, i continue....

    by the time i added my comments, i did not know others had replied - all of which, i think we basically concur.

    while i know i have a lot to learn, i have layers of management skills and a great sense of what i am designing. it is all about being the CEO of a team and today's yachts rely on the team properly interacting together for a final product. [aside, i have worked w/architects that know nothing about CAD however have vision & talent to tell someone how to draw it.] over the years i believe many studios do not have much going in the creative vain, and they are fine engineers.

    many of the yachts with obvious design flaws initially had scaled models created, yet ended-up being changed somewhere (after the sale?) - to their detriment. some hulls were only built off CAD drawings and you can see how their problems developed [either the styling was wrong or budget constraints caused something really wrong]. hindsight is always 20/20, but you have to be true to your design. other hulls [at some point], the designer either listened to someone or the client changed their mind. each build is like reading a new novel or watching a drama. i am very much of the mind of staying true to proper proportions and classic design. you have to always consider the resale value. once you master those points, you can create anything. your product will reflect this, as long as you stay true.

    some of you already know of my work: Link Removed

    i plan to address some points ahead of the next design to be uploaded [as i think it is important along with noting the lack of women in key design positions in the industry].​

    some things are so noticeable, after a while - i want to scream! (lol) people say they want to address/build the most modern or current, and many times in the end only copy something earlier or example something not functionable. i want the owner to be able to sit in/outside and enjoy their yacht under many conditions; but especially enjoy the out-of-doors w/o being blown away, while underway!

    it's not that difficult to create something new, i believe.

    [Carl, i hope you don't have a problem with me cross-pollinating the forum link above. best,]
  10. YachtForum, Dec 2, 2006
    #70
    YachtForum

    YachtForum Publisher/Admin

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