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Cape Horn Yachts

Discussion in 'Cape Horn Yacht' started by cabobo09, May 11, 2009.

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  1. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    (1) "What does me being out on one or out on one at sea have to do with anything? How does it have relevance to anything being discussed at all???"

    Because I have successfully concluded 19 Cape Horn sales, attended survey and sea trial on 16 of them, and have been to the Cape Horn yards numerous times. I am still in contact with almost every owner and previous owner from a 20 year history. I can factually substantiate almost every opinion that I share. And that's my point. I am trying to share informed knowledge and experience to help anyone reading these posts but unfortunately the information and facts get muddled with extraneous non-CH experienced opinions.

    For example:
    (2)"Didn't the last owner of Cape Horn build the last/final 3 or 4 boats in Asia???"

    As specified in my post #139, all Cape Horn trawlers were built at the 3 Canadian yards stated. NONE were built in China.
  2. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I must say that having seen one AFT-built CH 63 and a Kanter-built CH 55, while as you might remember the first had been rather neglected back in those days, I did like her much better than the latter.
    Size and other differences aside, AFT construction stroke me as better than Kanter (can't comment on Caraquet builds, which I've never seen).
    So, in this respect CJ's point might appear valid.

    Still, I'm not sure of what he means when he said...
    "This is the problem when a Yacht "builder or manufacturer" isn't really a builder or manufacturer and sub-contracts the entire build process to a seperate entity".
    I mean, this is not a problem per se, because it ain't something that the owner speccing the boat is not aware of.
    Unless he decides not to care at all about construction, but I think that's unusual, with boats like these.

    FWIW, I've also seen Nordhavns built by Ta-Shing, and others built in their own (well, almost, but let's leave that aside) Chinese factory.
    And guess what? I'd have the first rather than the latter, any day of the week.
    Now, would I still spend a lot of time in Taiwan myself, if I should buy a Nordie built by Ta-Shing, forking out an outrageous amount of money? Heck, yeah, of course.
    BUT, I'm not sure I would fancy having anything at all built in Xiamen, to start with.
    Nonetheless, all of them carry the same shiny logo... :rolleyes:
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What I meant is if you buy a yacht from a brand that is built by that builder. They own the entire product from start to finish. For example: Viking, Hatteras, Burger, Westport. Every employee, every build process, every nut, bolt and weld is their direct responsibility. They choose every single piece that goes into that yacht, they directly control the labor from bow to stern. It is their baby. It is under their direct supervision from start to finish. Every aspect of the build, they own. It is generally built right outside of their headquarters office door. Most of these builders have had the very same employees building the same boats for years, decades, even generations. They have perfected their techniques (for the most part), they have seen what works and doesn't work via experience, and warranty work and so on. There's longevity there, heritage, consistency.

    When a yacht design company or sales company who isn't a builder, sub-contracts a yacht to be built at a yard, there are plans and things that must be followed via the contract and design, but there are many things left to interpretation by the ACTUAL builder. Then you switch from this yard to that one.......then that yard to another one.......you're not going to have consistency, things are going to be done differently, joinery work will be done differently, employees will be learning the in's and out's of the design as they build the first ones....... Just like you noticed the difference between AFT and a kanter built one.....they're not identical in build.

    OTOH, there's a guy at the factory I can call at one of the aforementioned builders, and ask him where the air horn solenoid (or any other part in the entire boat is) on a 12 year old 65' yacht, and right off of the top of his head, he tells me, and he knows.....and it's there, he doesn't have to look it up by hull number, because they put the air horn solenoid in the same exact spot on every boat that size that they built........same with a 1 year old new yacht they built...... or a larger one......or smaller one......same with any other equipment.......or the autopilot compass.......or anything.......there is congruency in the build, each boat is built alike, aside from options. There are plans, things are installed in the location the plan AND owner's manual says they are......why, because the same guy, installs the same piece of equipment, in every boat that size, for the past 10 years........there's a lot of value in that.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    THIS IS FROM POST #101 FROM PETER SERVER HIMSELF!!!!! It reads to me that he contracted to build an 82' from Sparkman and Stevens and was built in China THEN he sold the company and the person who bought the company from him then moved production ONCE AGAIN, to the U.S then died.

    "
    Sparkman and Stephens studied our boats thoroughly and didn't change much below the waterline even though they had a free hand. They did a great styling job however and convinced me that roll-over was virtually impossible so went with a larger, more luxurious aluminum superstructure of similar weight to the steel one.

    Unfortunately I have never been aboard the Sparkman and Stephens 82 I had contracted and started to build in a superb China yard well before selling the company. Mike who bought the brand didn't feel like flying 18 hours to China every couple months, most unfortunately, nor did his managers -- so he tripled the cost and built in USA. Big costly error. It killed him, perhaps literally. Nor have I spoken to anyone who has been aboard -- so cannot speak with any knowledge of the 2nd generation at sea. I find the photos to be very pretty however; great lines to my personal taste. But a $2 million (construction cost) boat suddenly became a $6 million construction-cost boat -- and it ended there. Most sadly.

    - Peter"
  5. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well I did understand what you literally meant.
    What I'm saying is that the implications aren't as 1 to 1 as you describe them.
    I could name "self-sufficient" builders whose boats I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, as well as others using sub contractors with much better results.
    If you are convinced that what you are suggesting is always the case, I assume you are not taking any flight operated with a Boeing airplane, right?
  6. Julie10

    Julie10 New Member

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    Dear Peter,
    I would love a copy of the Cape Horn 28th edition. I am doing research on the Cape Horn - very keen on the 55 model. Also need to look at steel versus fibreglass. Thank you in advance.
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Julie, I don't know if Peter is checking the forum regularly, but I also have the PDF file of his book you are interested in.
    And since he already said that he was willing to send it to anyone interested, I guess he wouldn't have any objection if I forward it to you.
    It's 3 Mb, so larger than the max size that the forum accepts for attachments, but small enough to be sent as an email attachment.
    If you just send me a PM with your mailbox (don't post it directly in this thread, administrators don't like that), I'll email it to you.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  8. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Thanks, Paolo! I have the brochure on PDF. I have some of the original hardcopy brochures that I treasure.

    Thanks! You're always so willing to help.

    J
  9. Julie10

    Julie10 New Member

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    Hi, as soon as I can work out how to pm you (new to the site) I will send email address. Thanks so much.
  10. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Thanks to you Judy, I just try to do what I can - particularly when it's as easy as in this case.

    BTW, I just re-checked my PDF file, and I noticed something that never grabbed my attention before.
    According to the index, there should be four appendixes (A to D), but in my file there are only A, B and D.
    Appendix C is missing, and its title as shown in the index is rather intriguing: "Model Profiles & Suggested General Arrangements".
    If by chance this appendix is included in your version of the PDF file (or if you have that also as a separate PDF), I'd be curious to have a look at it.
  11. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    It's missing in the one I have on PDF which is March 2003. However, my brochure from May 2002 has it. I'll ping Peter and see if he has that on PDF.
  12. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    The only one Peter has currently available on PDF is with the missing Appendix C. I can scan the pages from the hardcopy I have. Appendix C has 2-4 pages per model, models 65, 75, & 95. Which ones are of interest?
  13. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Many thanks, Judy.
    The size I used to be interested in was up to 65' max, but as I think to have told you, by now mine is just a curiosity, rather than a real interest.
    My boating choices in the last decade made me drift away from my old passion for long distance cruising, for several reasons which are of no interest to the forum.
    So, even if I'd like to have a look at those profiles, I don't want you to waste any time scanning them just for me.
    Whenever you should do it for any clients of yours, if you'll remember to email me a copy, I'd appreciate. :)
  14. Peter J Sever

    Peter J Sever New Member

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    Julie if I read you correctly you want a copy of the book? If so no problem, I just need your email address.
  15. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Follow-up:

    Julie has received the Cape Horn brochure via email.
    Mapism has received the scans for the CH65.

    Judy
  16. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Receipt acknowledged, thanks a lot Judy.
    It would be nice if active builders would be half as responsive as CH still is now, after several years.
    Makes me wonder how pleasant the experience of building a boat with your and Peter's support could have been! :)
  17. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    :)
  18. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Wow, interesting thread, read the whole thing this morning.
    Looks like you have to find me a CH 55 Judy. :cool:
  19. Whitney Irons

    Whitney Irons New Member

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    Wow. My broker sent me a package this morning on a 60’ CH. Looked interesting so I thought I would do some investigation since I’ve never seen one. Now, after reading this thread, I’m not sure whether to thank him or block his number.
  20. cdg

    cdg Member

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    I can't speak for every Cape Horn Whitney Irins but I can speak about mine, as I have done here. Any Ch designed and built like mine is a superb craft for cruising. I've had mine 10 years now and don't regret it. I've been in some hairy seS too on My Columbus, and that's when I really really dont regret it !
    I'm not sure what kinda boat you want and it's always a personal thing... but I wanted a long range cruiser with tonnes of room, comfort, absolute safety and easy no-crew options.
    Whitney Irons likes this.