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Can anyone explain this "feature"?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Maximum interior space combined with styling considerations brings us the giant toe rail compromise.

    How much can fit in a given LOA?

    Designers want the largest possible interior space, stylists want a sheer line that doesn't make the boat look too high sided - even more-so when it's a colored hull combined with white topsides.

    Sea Ray, Silverton, Carver and other production builders have been using this method for years. At least since the early 1990's.

    It's a part of an evolution over the years from building a boat first with creature comforts coming second, now it's creature comforts first with building a boat coming second.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Are you forgetting that when a boat/yacht runs at cruise the bow is pointing up in the air? A sloped deck makes a huge difference in being able to see the first 200 yards in front of the boat while you're doing 20-30knots. Not to mention you already have to look through windshield posts, windshield wipers, over a sunpad, through a bow rail many times. Some expresses the visibility is horrible and once at cruise you cannot see near the boat. So if you're running in an area with crab pots or bouys or passing anything floating, once it gets close enough you completely lose it in your vision before you've even passed it.

    AND, if you cannot safely work the front deck getting the lines or putting out the anchor of the boat pictured in Post #1, you really need to stay at home. There is a really high railing everywhere to lean against and hold onto.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Captain, you've really surprised me. I'll leave this there, and not respond further.

    I will however point out that this is a style statement, and safety & visibility obviously have nothing to do with the design, and were obviously not considered.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    How can you say that. Look at how many crossbars the bow rail has near the bow? They made it very difficult for anyone to slide off of the bow. The fore deck is not really sloped that much either. So they chopped the pointy end off, what's the big deal about that?
  5. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Did he surprise you with a good argument? In what way is this unsafe? Are we afraid of green water washing up and taking the crew off the side? Are we talking about the crew sliding over the toe rail but under the bottom railing? Do we have very slender crew? ON a sailboat with decks much closer to the water, where the crew needs to be out on the decks working, and where the boat is far more likely to be out in adverse sea conditions it seems like that bow would be more than acceptably safe. I don't see why we should consider it unsafe on a motoryacht.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It s not about deck safety it s about loosing deck space

    I'm sure you ve run older hatts like my 53 and there is no visibility issue even from the lower helm. It s pretty easy to we how far your pulpit is from a dock or the boat in front when docking.

    Under way if a boat is so badly designed that you can't see forward than there are bigger concerns. Note that this is a flybridge boat... Like most Laz. Visibility from a lower helm is no concern
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    No. The argument is irrelevent. Capt. J can like it if he wants. The designers are staking their profits on someone liking it, so I'm sure someone will. I was surprised by:
    " I would say that proper visibility while transiting would trumph any inconvenience of walking up there when docking for the 10 minutes a day you might be up there tieing and untieing lines."
    As captain the crew is my responsibility, and their safety is my first priority. Working deck is the most dangerous thing they'll do. I can't count the serious injuries I've suffered when working deck, from broken ribs, noses, many toes to gushing blood from all sorts of places. Also as captain, I've run with all sorts of limited visability, including walls of human bodies blocking my vision. I know how to make the best of what I've got. It's no comparrison to keeping the crew safe on deck.

    And no I'm not worried about some green water washing up on the deck. I'm worried about a deckhand feeling with his feet as he's paying prime attention to what's going on at the dock, and hitting that downward slope causing him to take a header over the rail or doing a split as one leg slipes down the slope. I'm worried about a kid sitting at the bow, where they don't belong yet always seem to be, and sliding off the boat.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It is about deck safety, and I feel it was compromised by the loss of deck space, and mitered edge in the design.

    Whether your visable area at water level starts 20' from your bow or 50' from your bow is irrelevent. Whether it starts 25' rather than 22' is certainly irrelevent. A ship might not see the first 100 yards or even much more. You deal with it. You go no faster than you can know what's under your bow. When I back into a slip I don't need to be able to see the slip. I only need to eyeball it once so I know the boat will fit. From there I only need to see one piling.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You might want to take another look at that pic. You'll get the best angle at the rail by the starboard cleat. the bottom rail is past where the slopes begins, and the top rail is well outboard of that.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If you look at the boat in person.....the slope is a maximum of 4" between that stbd cleat and the bow. The cap rail comes up, but the deck is fairly level. That section always has to be sloped or the water wont drain.....so it either has to be sloped foward or backwards.......

    Have you considered becoming a Sailboat Captain as they generally have flat decks as long as you don't trip on the myriad of stuff on the deck or hit your head on the boom.......
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    C'mon man, if you want to talk all sailor like stop saying stuff like that.

    Freeboard is a measurement, not a location or bit of structure.

    When a tender comes back to the boat it doesn't "come alongfreeboard" does it?
  12. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Freeboard

    Oh dear Marmot, I can see two or three days of BS postings regarding nautical terms and then the thread being shut down because some don't like to be corrected, lol.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Since I don't have that opportunity and you seem to, where is the bottom rail in relation to the start of the slope? And the top rail? Both appear in the picture to be outboard of where your foot can be on a flat surface. If so that's a hazard.
    I'll ignore your feeble attempt at being a wise guy.
  14. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Almost all railings are outboard of where your feet can be and are mounted on the cap rail and not the walkway so they are not a trip hazard. The Hatteras you are on, they are mounted on the Cap Rail.

    I personally don't care for the look or the manufacturer. But I can imagine it makes a lot of space in the foward VIP and also you might be able to med moor with the bow facing the ugly seawall and a great view of the harbor from the aft deck.

    That being said there is one on C dock at Bahia Mar that I walk past weekly and it is docked bow in. The section of the bow rail that has 3 horizontal rails, the lower rail is probably 14" above the deck and the top rail is probably waist level, the side rails are waist level so you can lean against it when getting lines. I also believe where the 3 horizontal rails stop is has a white rubber coated safety line that runs down the middle of the stantions all of the way to the stern. To be honest with you, it's one of the safer front decks I've seen to work on, much safer than the hatteras your on (It doesn't have dock boxes in the way, windlass foot switches to stub your toes on, anchor chain and windlass to trip over etc, cleats on the foward walkway etc). Wide walk ways, no trip hazards, high strong rails, etc. Keep in mind it is built for the more stringent CE certification, and I think it would meet the USCG certification for rail height and such to be an inspected commercial vessel (the hatteras you're on, won't because the doorways are too narrow).
  16. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Booms

    NYCAP123, as the discussion is about fore decks and rails and you obviously being a sail boat Captain, can you explain how the boom would be a hazard to those walking on the fore deck. Just curious. :D
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    In the event of a flying gybe with a preventer on you might get cleaned up by the boom whilst trying to get out of the way of therest of the stuff that is coming down.

    I have been on a sail boat that was dis masted while on the wind, the amount of stuff on deck was amazing, each and every one of those lines and wires could easily be deadly but in my case the boom was still attached to the sail and was on the coach roof
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That's not the question that was asked.
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    And I assume by your handle that you ride horses, not run boats.
  20. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    How does one transverse from yacht to horse;

    unless one is not talking from the horse's mouth? :eek:


    Yachtjockey = boat jockey