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Cabo Yachts Coming Back

Discussion in 'Cabo Yacht' started by German Yachting, Aug 29, 2018.

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  1. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Well, it will still probably be built by Hatteras but it looks like they are going to start using the Cabo name again with a new Cabo 41.

    http://hatterasyachts.promo/cabo-41
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Interesting. Now to see if there will be one model only or how soon for other models. Wonder if the success of the return of Bertram somehow inspired them.

    I wonder also if it signals some weakening of the Hatteras market.
  3. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Basically the old Cabo 40 is now back on the market.
    Interesting as the ex-Cabo guys are building a new 42 Express with their Mag Bay Boat company in CA. Who’s gonna come out on top?
  4. Trinimax

    Trinimax Senior Member

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    I suspect it has more to do with the fact that Mag bay has their new Michael Peters designed 42 express coming out soon as PacBlue said. It has some pretty similar dimensions. I have fished quite a bit on the cabo 40 express and was quite impressed with the ride and build quality. I see they are calling it a "41" now, but looking at the specs, I see nothing has changed.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, the Hatteras 70 became the 75 so 1' is nothing.
  6. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    They are both MP designs.
    41 Cabo has a well deserved ride reputation , the 42 Mag Bay will have the opportunity to include lessons learned. Both have a 15’-9” beam, Cabo has 15 degree deadrise, Mag Bay has 18 degree deadrise. Classic styling versus a newer look. Can a nimble family owned business take the establishment down (again)?
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't think so, they didn't take the establishment down in the first place so not sure on the (again) comment. Hatteras keeps popping out 1 45' after another which was the 44' cabo but more refined in several aspects, mainly the amazing 1 piece front windshield. I've run a lot of them in several iterations. The 41' Cabo doesn't look any different than the older 40', not even the HTX version which was an improvement IMO. I don't think Mag Bay will give Hatteras a run for it's money. I just haven't seen any Mag Bay center consoles here on the East coast at all aside from one at FLIBS a few years ago. It would be nice if Hatteras did the Zues option, but don't think they will. The 40' zues was by far the best running 40' Cabo in every aspect (speed, ride, handling, fuel consumption, quietness and smoothness)...it was just the ideal combination for that boat...the Man 800's would be second and Cat's last (noise). Chances are I will end up running a 41' sooner or later.
  8. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    It looks like Mag Bay will be pretty limited to what they can build given their factory is pretty far inland. They will only be able to ship by truck which will limit the beam on it.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Cabo's factory was 2 hours from water also. They built and shipped as large as a 52' Flybridge, so they can build up to that. The 52's could be shipped as far as GA and then had to be run down to South Florida from there. But the 44's could be trucked all of the way to Fort Lauderdale. MOST of the East coast boats got shipped to Fort Lauderdale and Pipewelders, Hi-seas, P+R did the finishing (tower, electronics, strataglass).
  10. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Go back in history - A high quality sailboat manufacturer (Pacific Seacraft) enters the SF market with a 35 Cabo and no SF experience and takes the industry by storm. Quality, fit and function are the envy of their market. Even with a wet riding, sometimes pounding first model, the quality, lack of creaks and groans underway , is undeniable. The innovation of using the Cockpit engine boxes that go thru the Aft Salon Bulkhead and place part of the engine in the salon under useable seating is a twist of genius on the classic 31 Bertram (and even the new 35 Bertram) configuration which uses up way too much cockpit space and leaves little to the mass appeal of a functional salon in that size.

    The boat building establishment, Bertram, Blackfin just to name a few, are caught with their pants down, so to speak, and Cabo rockets to the top of the heap of the small SF Express/Flybridge market. Pumping out product like now other out of their desert facility in California that goes all over the world.

    Bertram and Blackfin eventually become defunct, a direct hit on the establishment. The nimble partnered business definitely took the establishment down. There were other casualties as well.
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That is ancient history. Mag Bay has been promoting for how long with nothing to show for it? At best, they'll be a small boutique builder. However, if Hatteras tries, they'll build and sell many times the number of boats Mag Bay sells. Just look at the success of the 45. The current Mag Bay is a small facsimile of what once was. They had an opening, but in my opinion moved too slowly to take advantage.

    Now one can't be sure of how serious Hatteras is either. Is it going to be one model or do they really intend to bring the brand back. Is it to stay or next time they need the production capacity for Hatteras, will Cabo fall victim again?
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A sailboat manufacturer (Pacific Seacraft) did not enter the SF market. The 2 owners of Pacific Seacraft sold the company, had a 2 year non compete, after only some months they got antsy sitting around, went to the Newport Boat Show.....saw a 31' Blackfin and said we can build a better one of these...….and they started a new company....and Cabo was born......wasn't the 31' express their first boat and the 35' came later?

    You are talking about 2 completely different companies. And 2 entirely different owners of those companies. The son of 1 of the owners of Cabo is not the same thing. Making an updated version of a boat your father introduced 15 before is not revolutionary by any means. Or think about it this way, a slightly updated version of the mold Hatteras has been sitting on for 5 years now and hasn't even bothered using. Revolutionary would have to be way out of the box, not a slight twist on an old tale. Does the Mag Bay boat have great potential, absolutely. Whether the public perceives it that way, is a big question mark.

    Is the 35' Bertram considered revolutionary compared to the 31' it replaced,or even the SF market, hardly. Is it a great updated model based on the 31' Bertram, yes.

    Look at Jupiter. Jupiter has always built high quality, good riding boats for decades. They have even built some sportfish boats. But they have never even come close to the popularity of their peers like contender, yellowfin, seavee, etc. etc.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  13. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Before Brunswick, Cabo lived from 1991 - 2007, not so ancient to me and a bit of an odd statement coming from an "older"boater.

    The entrance into the CC SF market was ill -timed and a poor choice from the get go. It is way too saturated with proven performers. The transom design is funky and they just missed. No new builder of note has been able to crack the established CC market except for Barker Boats. In my opinion , they should have went to a Catamaran CC/SF market and pass over the mono-hulled CC SF.

    Mag Bay may have lesser ambitions today than before, they certainly have made their money for the old guard, it will be interesting to see as to how much production they can develop with the new Mag Bay 42 for the new guard. There are still some of the production crew in the area.
  14. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Mike and Henry founded and owned Pacific Seacraft from 1976 - 1989. They sold and within two years officially started Cabo which they owned from 1991 - 2007. They had many of the same Pacific Seacraft production guys jump ship and move to the Adelanto plant. The 35FB was the first model, you should know that. If you can not see the connection, you may need to see an eye doctor, as they were purely a sailboat manufacturer and never went back to the "dark side". They had no SF in their bloodline, so to speak, and the "establishment" tried to use the sailboat background against them from day one, even in their own advertising campaigns against Cabo. Bertram/Blackfin and others did not know what hit them and how to respond to a bunch of "ragboaters" encroaching on their territory. Ultimately, Mike and Henry had the last laugh.

    I clearly stated that the 35 Cabo was revolutionary, the design of the cockpit/engine box was pure genius on the owner's and their designer, Bill Crealock part. Production Builders that used engine boxes before either had them entirely in the cockpit or salon, but not both. That gave them a SF cockpit with a livable salon, nothing seen like it at that time. And it kept the center of gravity low.

    The Bertram 35 is executed in a very good way, there is nothing really genius about the design though. It does have room for a SeaKeeper, and has the look and feel that they wanted, but that is about it. My feeling is that the engine box design was Cabo's/Crealock's and Michael Peters wanted to remain traditional to the Bertram inspiration or did not want to use that feature because of ego, it really did not make sense. It makes the 35 Bertram more Picnic Boat like than Convertible. And it is not a 40 knot boat.

    You talk about Jupiter which is an interesting connection. Carl Herndon is the founder of Jupiter, was the founder of Blackfin and came from Bertram. What a small world. His Bertram and Blackfin roots have not brought him up to the cream of the crop in the CC market, but below it. And I am not surprised, as we had a 38' Blackfin with 6V-92TA's, and while it was a good head sea boat, I don't have much more positives to say about it, especially the quality. Assuming the Jupiter product is better as they are still in production.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    In business, 2007 is ancient. Especially in this situation. Cabo peaked and sold right before the recession. As poor as things turned with Brunswick, don't for one minute think they would have been good had ownership not changed. A small privately owned business like them would have really been challenged and 500 employees would have gone to 100 just as quickly. Which is to another point. They did peak at 540 employees. How many do they have now? 30? 50? 75? I don't know. But it's not the company it was. Mag Bay is not the old Cabo. Cabo is not the old Cabo. Still some of the production crew in the area, I have no doubt. But it's been many years since they were employed building Cabo.

    As to "older" boater, was a joke by my wife and compared to her I am older.

    2007 is ancient as in an entirely different business era, as in a very different work force at the facility, as in different ownership and management, as in different financing of the business, as in a different market. 2007, Cabo was on top. 2018, Mag Bay is on the bottom, looking up. 2018, Cabo is one future model, not a company.
  16. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    2007 is ancient? Wow, you may have just moved yourself from an olderboater status to an ancientboater with that statement. Business or not.

    You are assuming that the business acumen of Mike/Henry would not get them through those timeframes like the family owned business of Viking, Regulator and others did. Poor assumption in my opinion, as they have weathered the boat building seen from at least 1976 - 2007 and you have to give them credit for 30 years in the marketplace.

    Selling Pacific Seacraft before the 10% Luxury Tax disaster, opening Cabo at the tail end of the 10% luxury tax just in time to take the Industry by storm and selling to Brunswick at a peak moment after Brunswick was hounding them for years to sell. You need to give them some credit for living and building in those ancient times, their timing and business acumen was impeccable.

    Not all moves and decisions read like a stale corporate annual report when you have a nimble private company.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I didn't assume any such thing. I stated, "As poor as things turned with Brunswick, don't for one minute think they would have been good had ownership not changed. A small privately owned business like them would have really been challenged and 500 employees would have gone to 100 just as quickly." That doesn't indicate they would have failed, just that it would not have remained the same. They would have been challenged. They would have shrunk. They would have been impacted like Cabo under Brunswick was.

    Now, they would have kept something going and definitely been better off than they are now trying to start over. They may have a world of experience and have built sailboats in further ancient times and everything else, but today they're still a start up company that has only built one boat model and it is a center console and they have plans for a SF in 2019. Just like Hatteras has plans for a Cabo. Neither boat exists today. Hatteras does still have the old mold though.

    And 2007 remains ancient from a business standpoint. We restarted a manufacturing facility in January that had closed in 2015 and we were only able to get a small percentage of people back and it's definitely not a continuation. It's a new business with a few experienced employees. It was in some ways a mistake. Needing more production, we chose more recently to stick to buying currently operating facilities. There are thousands of manufacturing facilities all around the country from 2007 that starting back up at anything close to what they were before would be impossible. Starting a small operation like Mag Bay is possible, but to pretend it's Cabo reincarnated is just not realistic. It's experienced boat builders starting a new business where another one once operated.

    The business landscape in nearly every industry is completely different than it was in 2007. Those that are still operating the same as they did then, are now ancient and failing. You have to constantly reinvent yourself. Hatteras is definitely not the same company they were in 2007. And, the workers they had in 2007 and subsequently laid off over the years, and have wished they could have brought back the last few years, only a small percentage of them are still available. Many left the industry, never to look back.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    How can you even say this? All of the top performers have huge waits on center consoles. Sea Vee, Intrepid, Yellowfin and several of the other big center console builders have a 2+ year wait to get one and have for the last several years. Nortech a race boat builder enters the market after the crash, and you can't go to a single marina in South Florida without tripping over at least one of them.

    Nobody wants a catamaran cc , there is no market.....Grady White tried it and failed horribly. Another big builder tried it and failed horribly. Glacier Bay can't sell a bunch of them.

    I agree the transom design is funky, and they really missed the boat in size. Everyone wants 27' and under to tow easily, or 38' and over with triples or quads.
  19. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    The market saturation with brands in the CC/SF world is the tough nut to crack, and they have earned their backlogs on their own merit. I can easily state that it is difficult to break in the upper level club of entrenched CC/SF, because no one other than the Barker Boats has done it.

    Freeman Cats has a 3 year backlog, there are three new entries preparing to come into that market as it has opportunity, even with established players like Prowler and Invincible. Your Grady White Cat reference is archaic at best. Glacier Bay is lower tier, not an upper tier entity like SeaVee, etc. Bad comparisons.
  20. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    That is a cop out, as the opposite holds true, "thousands" of businesses in operation before 2007 that are bigger and stronger today....... Six or one half dozen or the other. Using outside Industry examples is futile to the Marine Industry, different rhythm, different beat.

    Never have pretended that MB is at the same production levels as the peak of Cabo, everything has a beginning, they deserve their shot, even if they are taking on the "establishment".