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c-30 Cat Engines

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by jeffr, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. jeffr

    jeffr New Member

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    Hi All:
    I'm looking at a 61 Viking with C30 Cat engines. I've always liked the 61 Viking, but just didn't care for the MTU engines. There are a few with the C32 Cats, and I was wondering if the group had any opinion about the C30, good or bad? Do you think that would be a good engine in a 61 viking?

    Thanks
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I've always liked the 3412. I understand the C-30 is a real close cousin but can not tell you what those differences are. You should not be disappointed unless the dealer or installer messes up.
    My next personal thought is; Stay away from MTU.
  3. jeffr

    jeffr New Member

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    Thanks. I know good things about the 3412s, but the C32s simply seem too big and loud on a 61. hence, the c30s seemed about right. I just didn't know if they had a history of problems or reputation of not being as good for some reason.

    appreciate your time in getting back to me.

    Jeff
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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  5. jeffr

    jeffr New Member

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    Great information and a big help.

    Thanks a lot.

    jeff
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    To big? Loud?
    I remember an article about buying a boat with future sales in mind; At that time, the thought was buy the larger hp package and your resale would be nicer.
    I have always felt a boat with larger hp ratings would out last a lower h p rated boat. Fuel has been a sore subject for many years now, I just can not see anybody abusing the slightly larger h p boats. Dolors per mile will keep even the most insane operator (owner) from wot. On the other hand, lower h p boats have to be run harder to keep up, look good, or keep on step when fully loaded.
    Properly maintained C-32s may be a better venture if you also keep your foot out of them.

    I have not heard of (here in south Georgia) any C-30/32 repeated issues. Any MTU is an automatic issue.
    South Florida has all the MTUs and MTU (big bill) mechanics and headaches.
  7. jeffr

    jeffr New Member

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    makes sense. i test drove a Sunny Briggs with the C32s and we couldn't even talk on the bridge due to the loudness. It had underwater exhaust and when you applied power it rose the back of the boat up out of the water. I just don't need to go 45 knots!!

    but more than any of that is the reliability/maintenance. I think I have a good idea that they are fine with that.

    there is a general consensus that the Cats are fine and the MTUs should be avoided.

    I sure appreciate your time and effort to help me.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    You may be dealing with more boat & exhaust design than the engine making all the noise.
    Please run a C-32 in another ship (or more) before considering the loud operations an issue (between c-30 & 32).

    I'm death in one ear and can not hear in the other. But still, It's hard for me to tell the differences except near wot.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    CAT's have had a few issues with some of their engines but they generally have stood behind their products whilst researching the best solution.

    The cant be said for MTU in my own experience.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    yep...
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The C30's are bulletproof. They were based off of the 12 cylinder block that the 3412's used and CAT has used since 1978. They're a good running engine and durable. The C32's had a lot of problems at first and are an entirely different block/configeration than the C30's.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Cool, I did not know there was a major difference. I hope the problems were corrected? Still better than a MTU?
    A question that came up was noise, Would you think the installation would contribute to higher sound levels or could the C32 be a real noisy beast?
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    All CATS are noisier than their same sized MAN and MTU counterparts. As with anything, a good installation, exhaust, and sound deadening help a great deal. The 54' Hatt SF I ran with C30 cats was not noisy on the bridge and not very noticable in the salon either. At cruise I think they burned 130gph for the pair (80% load) at 1550hp. 1650hp C32's burn 140gph at 80% load. In comparison 2000hp 16v2000 mtu's burn 150gph at 80% load for the pair.

    Yes, the C32's are an overhead cam motor. The problems have been corrected and they're a durable motor and I like them.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The biggest trade off to bigger engines is loosing ER space not fuel... As others mentioned if you can restrain yourself you re not going to burn more and the biggest benefit is that the engines will last much longer than the smaller ones as they won't work as hard

    For instance in the 70' Johnson I run, the 1400hp 2002 vintage 3412Es burn 80 to 85 Gph combined at 22kts but that's only a 60% load. I don't even know what speed / burn we d get at 80% as i never run there, probably 110 Gph for 25kts...

    But at 60% they will last a lot longer than the base 1100hp engines that will be run at 80% most of the time, more than making up the additional initial cost

    The down side is that any ER work feels like a 2 hour yoga session :)
  15. walkinginshadow

    walkinginshadow Member

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    And how about MAN should trust them?
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    In all the MAN boats I've run, I've never had a major stoppage or any major mechanical issue. They usually are a touch faster and more fuel efficient. Definately are quieter. Doing an oil change is a pain in the butt on them, with the dual upside down filter canisters per motor that are never in a easily accessible place. Same with the fuel filters. Parts are more expensive.

    However, I manage a yacht with Common rail 1100's and it's had a lot of electrical issues with them. The hour meter and alarm circuit boards have been changed, several sensors such as air charge temp sensor have been changed. The hour meter/alarm boards were a factory defect where if the board loses power for too long it cannot get the hours from the other side of the board where it is saved on permanent memory. Yet they've never been recalled. The port engine throws all kinds of false alarms (intermittently) which we haven't been able to figure out where it's coming from. I also hear the same issues from a lot of other people as well.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I like the MANs. Your decision to go with MANs should be carefully researched. You need a real MAN local shop (or two) for support.
    There just is not many out there and not all are good.
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Visit both a MAN and CAT dealer and get quotes for routine services for the engines you are considering and compare costs over 2000 hours Also compare part prices for common things that will need replacemnet over that time like impellers, starter, filters etc

    Here are a few numbers for 1400hp 3412Es
    Level 3 service (3000hrs) $5000 incl valve adjust and aftercooler removal/clean
    Level 1 service (1000hrs) same

    Impeller $250 (lasted 4 years / 2000hrs) and still good when removed. Takes an hour or less
    Starter $500, easy swap
    Fuel cooler $1000. Also under an hour job

    I just did an oil change (incl fuel filters) for about $850 in parts, took me 6 hours. The bulk of costs being 45 gallons of oil :) incl the 2 gensets

    I wish I could list more costs but the above have been the extend of costs in the last 5 years
  19. walkinginshadow

    walkinginshadow Member

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    Yes I can agree about filters.
    And when I head about problem with circuit board and sensors then it can be power stability.
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    On one boat, we went for just a stb control board for run-away hour recording. "Known problem". The same f%^&*ng day the stb board was replaced, the port board was showing 25000 hours and climbing.
    What was that Star Trek quote; hours are minutes?
    The sensors are expensive and are the cause of a lot of false errors and problems. I have heard stories, but the blocks I service (4 crm 900s & 2, old V-10 1000's) are solid (knock on something good).
    Just wish there was a good area shop.

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