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Best Quality Brands of 5-20 years old used motor yachts 40-75 feet?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Joe Deepwater, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Wow, I'm impressed by how many draft specs you can remember!
    I must admit that I'm not used to consider that as a relevant factor, because it simply isn't, in 99% of the Med.
    Well, unless we are talking of sailboats or very large and heavy displacement vessels.
    Size can be, for accessing some small anchorages and/or marinas, but that's another matter, of course.
    I appreciate that in the Bahamas, Great Loop and other cruising grounds, draft can be critical.
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Remembered some, looked up some of the current. Mainly remember the boats we've owned or managed. Draft isn't the same issue on the west coast of the US, but east coast, gulf coast, Bahamas, inland rivers it is. There is likely no place on the ICW you can't travel with a 7' draft, but it may mean very careful avoidance of shoals and waiting for high tide in areas. Georgia, for instance, has areas of 8-9' tide swings.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What olderboater said and those were the 2 models I was thinking of the 66' Rivelle and 76' Perseo. That extra 1' of draft makes a lot of places here a no go, or go but you're worried the entire time.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    A lot of monitoring of tides.
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Draft is critical on the east coast and especially in the Bahamas which is the prime cruising ground for South East US boaters. We ve been spending 6 to 12 a year there for the past 12 years, not marina hoping but gunkholing in spots most boats over 50’ don’t go. A few times I ve had Bahamian fishermen telling me I couldn’t take dat big boat there ...

    5’ something draft is great... go anywhere no waiting for tides. 6’ and You need tides to get to some good anchorages in the Exumas. 7’ ? You loose half the anchorages, tides or not.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  6. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Cool. The Nav 6200 got beamier than all of the 15' Navigators that are just stretched like you mention.
  7. dougboyd

    dougboyd New Member

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    Well its now June 20, and I made a deposit on a 2004 Viking Princess 61. In the process I looked at a Ferretti 590 which is a close competitor, but condition was poor in wife's eyes. Regarding your opinion that "Best price and quality tend to go hand in hand" I found no evidence of this in my search. Prices for used boats were determined much more by how "clean" it was. A refit, upgraded boat, like a Manhattan 60 was selling 1.1 million while the same year Manhattan 60 with 12 years of wear was 700,000. When selling a boat it seems like replacing carpets, soft goods, upholstery, etc pays dividends. In the end I had to compromise on condition, price, amenities, like everyone else. One of the things I liked about Viking was the well illustrated owner's manual which is online, and covers operation, maintenance, and trouble-shooting of all systems. Survey and test drive are coming up in next week, stay tuned.
  8. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Good luck & congrats
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Congrats. Did you happen to look at the engine room at all?

    There isn't enough room to get your body forward of the back of the engines through the engine room door. You have to remove the salon couch, salon carpet, salon padding, and the hatches in the salon floor and put them all somewhere such as the aft deck to work on anything in the engine room. Be prepared that if you're not willing to remove and put back all of that stuff yourself, any service is going to be more costly, not that it isn't already given the access. Bottom line if anything breaks in the middle of a voyage, you're not fixing it until you're at the dock, or anchored, remove everything, after everything has cooled off.
  10. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    It's a pity that you came across a poorly maintained Ferretti 590, because imho she's a bit better seaboat than the Princess 61.
    And also larger (in spite of the name), because she's beamier - by almost one foot, as I recall.
    Besides, following Capt J comment on the engine room, the F590 has a pretty decent accessibility anywhere, being on V-drives.
    Headroom aside, which is nothing to write home about.
    Mind, I'm saying all this assuming that the model branded like Viking in the US is the same as the Princess 61 sold in Europe.
    But I believe that should be the case.

    I'm not dismissing the Princess anyway - far from it.
    Both boats you considered are among the best of that vintage/size.
    I just happen to prefer the other one, but with 15+ years old boats, conditions are by far the most important factor.
    I would also chose a well maintained P61 rather than a neglected F590, no doubt about it.

    Congratulations and all the best for the survey and seatrial!
  11. dougboyd

    dougboyd New Member

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    Very helpful comments Capt J. Yes I did look at the engine room, but mainly looked at the access for daily checks and oil changes. This seemed okay, especially with the mirrored engines which put most checks on the inside between engines. I liked the convenient oil change manifold which made it easy to pump out oil from both engines and both generators, just by switching valves. I noticed that the space between engines was less than normal, so agree it would be a squeeze to get to the front of the engines to check belts.
    I also read that there is access to the main engines through a hatch in the salon, and you have added more description of this. Not sure, but it seems like other boats do not have this hatch. This is another trade off: improved engine access at a cost for major repairs, or a great inconvenience if troubleshooting is necessary while underway. I will definitely ask the engine surveyor to comment on this. I understand the salon hatch is intended for engine replacement, and is complemented by a hatch in the fly bridge floor for crane access.
    When I looked at the Ferretti 590 engine room, I didn't closely look at access but I was scared off by its neglected appearance.
    Did I mention, I like mirrored engines. In San Francisco bay we sometimes need to dock with 35 kt cross winds (especially at Oyster Pt.). I hate having to deal with prop walk along with everything else in severe conditions.
    ==Doug
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I used to run a 50' Viking (Princess), and I too was very impressed with their manual. Back then it was printed though. Ran that boat from Maine to Ft. Lauderdale and a lot in between and in all sorts of seas. Thoroughly enjoyable, well mannered and dependable boat.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You have to remove the salon hatches to do an annual service on the engines or any repairs really. Which requires removing the couch, carpet, carpet padding and then hatch. Most other yachts don't have these hatches because they have an engine room you can work in, it's a source of noise, heat, and smell to possibly enter the living spaces (salon etc). In comparison, I can stand up AND access every inch of the engine room on it's sister, the 63' Sunseeker Manhattan, or a 60' Hatteras MY......

    On a yacht like this, you should never have to remove the engines. The hatches are not there for that. The engines can be rebuilt in place on a yacht with normal access. It would be an extremely extremely rare event that you'd have to remove an engine on a yacht.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Depending on the yacht and extent of work maybe but I've seen the side of a lot of yacths cut out to slide the motor out. Gets expensive bringing the rebuild to the boat.
  15. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Also seen smaller holes in the bottom created to just remove the pan and crank, reinstall bearings. Rebuilds in place.
  16. dougboyd

    dougboyd New Member

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    Dear Captain J,
    I have completed the boat and mechanical surveys on the Viking Princess 61. As promised I asked the Mechanical Surveyor about access to the main engines for repairs. He had no problem moving between engines to the front and inspecting the outboard sides of the engines. He stated that there was sufficient space to repair all common service and repair items. He also said the tightest was on the outboard side of the engines due to side fuel tanks, but parts were still accessible. He also noted that his shop, Coleman Marine, has a couple of skinny mechanics who would be able to reach everything. So it doesn't appear that there is any need to remove the Salon floor panels as you speculated. Also there was no noticeable noise or gas emission from the salon floor during the sea trial. This particular boat may be slightly different from the Princess 61 you experienced. There is a separate cockpit hatch for access to the engine room. Another cockpit hatch is for the large lazarette which is one of the features of this boar. As I mentioned there is easy access to all normal engine checks, strainers, oil change points which face inward on the symmetric engines.

    Today, I reached agreement with the seller on the repair allowance and will soon be the owner of this boat. It will need quite a bit of refit, but well worth it due to the savings compared to the cost of a newer boat.

    ==Doug
  17. MLILIENTHAL

    MLILIENTHAL New Member

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    Congratulations and I hope your "new" boat is working out well. I lost my boat to hurricane Dorian last year and am looking at "new" ones ("new in quotes because only new to me, not brand new). I cant believe it but I read every post in all 7 pages of this thread. Most of the models are not ones I'm interested in but still the knowledge and detail by those posting is impressive and informative for sure.
    hat4349 likes this.