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Best Quality Brands of 5-20 years old used motor yachts 40-75 feet?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Joe Deepwater, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Not mentioned, but in the big end of the size range, I wouldn't be afraid of a Burger (or Hatteras), even one that is much older. In the end it's all about really getting to know the boat well, every aspect, every inch.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    DOUGBOYD- The Title of this thread is "Best Quality brands of yachts 40-75'". Generally price and quality tend to go hand in hand.
  3. dougboyd

    dougboyd New Member

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    Thanks GR,

    For some reason, I was not looking at the Navigator 62 ft line that you are suggesting. Part of this was that I didn't like the Navigator 53s that are essentially stretched 48s. But t he 62 looks good to me compared to the other West Coast choices, and I found at least one online with stabilizers. My wife is even more sensitive to purchase price than style, so this could work. Thanks again for steering me in this direction.

    I also considered the Monte Carlo MC6 in San Diego, but worried it might be a bit flimsy, like my impression of Prestige.

    ==Doug
  4. Maxwell

    Maxwell Senior Member

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    I haven't run the MC6 however delivered an MC5 roughly 120nm a few years back. To me the boat was laid up rather light and the craftsmanship was just ok at best. The punch list that the dealer had for a new boat was extensive and they did have some difficulty getting parts. It was spring and cooler on the great lakes so I ran from the lower helm. I was surprised by how clear you could hear the water etc running under the boat. Not a sensation that I've had on similar boats in its class (Tiara, Sea Ray, Hatteras etc).

    Max
  5. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    I believe this can be attributed to a cored running surface, whereas the Tiara and Hatt are using solid glass hulls beneath the waterline. I went aboard one of the first Monte Carlos at the Miami show about 8-10 years ago and my impressions parallel Maxwell's.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It s a trade off. Less weight means Less fuel and / or more speed. Lazzara have cored hulls incl the bottom and they are a little more noisy but name an 84 footer that burns 70 gph at 20 kts (calm water)?

    The 84 Hatteras burns about 20% more at cruise. But yes with a heavier hull and sharper entry the ride will be smoother into head seas. Compromise is the name of the game
  7. mapism

    mapism Member

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    For EU-styled but much more solid boats (even better than the Manhattan, in fact), you might have a look at Ferrettis, of which I guess you could find some in the US.
    The models that would fit your requirements nicely are the 590/1/2. Personally, I prefer the original style of the 590 and 591, but if a full beam master cabin is a must for you (or, more typically, your wife :)), you can get that in the 592.
    All based on the same hull, and delivering very good performances.
    Depending also on the powerplant of course, which as I recall stretched from the 1050 MANs of earlier 590, all the way up to C32 and MTUs, which were available on the latest 592, and made her a performance beast.
    All the best for your search!
  8. NYboater

    NYboater New Member

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    50gph on AMG’s Delta 88 at 20 kts!
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I ran a 590' Feretti, I think the boat was a 2003. It had 1050 MANs and was fast from what I remember. I don't remember the exact cruise speed. I ran a 74' Feretti with C30's also a 2003 or 2004 and it too was fast and a good seaboat but didn't turn very well at all. Not sure why Feretti thought small rudders mounted aft of the transom would be a good idea. The problem with Feretti's is they have no head room and tight curved stair cases and things of that nature. But usually fast and good sea boats.

    I've run a lot of Manhattans and they're fast and very good sea boats. Best compromise IMO over a Feretti due to layout and headroom.

    I recently ran a 76' Monte Carlo. It had MANs and ZF pods, boat was slow at 20 knots, they don't have a lot of fuel capacity/range either. I didn't notice the boat being noisy at cruise inside, but it was cheaply built.
  10. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Pros and cons, as always.
    Transom rudders do have their place in planing hulls, and are often used in fast boats like Itama, Magnum, Baia, etc.
    Unless fitted with surface drives, of course.
    On a flybridge they are indeed a bit of a borderline choice, but actually Ferretti didn't use them on all their boats.
    Surely not on the 590/1/2, for instance.
    I'm not sure of what model exactly is the 74' that you have in mind, was it possibly called 730 or 731?
    Regardless, I can't recall what the rudders placement was on the 73x, but I believe she was a straight shaft boats, as opposed to the 59x which used V-drives with jackshafts.
    And the latter is a layout (again, with its pros and cons) which Ferretti mastered very well indeed, in all the many models where they used it.

    Ref. headroom, I guess you must have in mind their boats before the redesign of most superstructures in the second half of the noughties, going for arguably less sleek and elegant lines, but a bit more roomy internally.
    Which is what happened also with the 592, vs. the previous 590/1.
    'Fiuaskme, I actually prefer the "older" design, but each to their own on that.
    Regardless, I'd have a Fer 59x rather than a 'Hattan 60 any day of the week.
    The former is in fact a bit larger (in spite of the model name) and better performing than the latter.
    Which is actually a common trait of most S/skrs, which are more aimed at appearing, rather than actually being fast boats.

    Lastly, fwiw I agree that I'd never have ANY pods powered flybridge boat (like the MC which you mention).
    That's a layout which is firmly into the "over my dead body" category.
    The joystick does sell boats, though. Impossible to argue with that! :)
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The official designation was a 730 I believe, boat was a 2004 I think. Rudders were behind the transom and boat was definitely under-ruddered. Feretti builds a good sea boat and fairly fast. But, the layout well that depends on the model...….but they have done some really stupid stuff in interior design...….the door frames that stick up 3" above the floor at the entrance to each stateroom is a killer. Tight staircases, a lot of steps, low headroom, narrow doorways.....when the ceiling is just under 7' and you're 6'3 it makes the boat look a lot smaller inside and a strange feeling. It also makes the house look low and effects the looks of the exterior. Then again I ran an 80' Fairline where the ceiling was 6'4 in the entire galley and my hair would touch the headliner. Outside the seating is kind of quarky and strangely designed, plus they loved to put teak everywhere. Like I said before they're a good sea boat, fast, and build quality seems to be pretty good, but they really miss the American market when it comes to design. But, also the 60' Hatteras you mentioned has way too much headroom in the salon level and boat looks a little too tall.

    The ZF pods on the monte carlo, the joystick wasn't programmed that well and it was very jumpy.
  12. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Well, everything is relative, of course.
    Personally, I always felt more "at home" in Ferrettis than Sunseekers, at any comparable size, but that's a matter of personal preferences.
    Not that it's difficult to beat S/skrs with regard to interiors, anyway.
    Imho, in this respect they are the worst of the 3 UK builders.
    Princess and Fairline have their own strengths and weaknesses, but overall I'd rate them roughly on par, and both a notch above S/skr.
    Besides, S/skr is far behind not only American, but also most Italian builders.
    Like the MCYs or Azis, whose construction quality can be debated till the cows come home, but they are right at the top of their game, when it comes to internal liveability.
    Not to mention Sanlorenzo, just to make another example, though their boats generally command higher prices.

    Regardless, I tend to not comment a lot on interiors and liveability when making suggestions on boats, for two reasons:
    1) it doesn't take a lot of experience to check that, and everyone can judge for themselves and make up their mind, depending on personal needs.
    2) in my experience, wives always have the last word on that. So, since typical forum inquiries are NOT posted by them, it's pointless to suggest anything to a poor chap who eventually will have to accept whatever his first officer will decide... :rolleyes:

    I appreciate that this is a bit of a generalization, and there can be exceptions.
    But I believe they are pretty rare! :)
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't feel that way about Sunseeker. Sunseekers performance is much better than Princess and Fairline, so is there seakeeping ability. Sunseeker throughout their line is a better sea boat than Princess and Fairline. I've run a lot of all 3. Princesses tend to have a lot of warranty issues, right out of the gate. Although the Sunseeker 66' I've been running has had it's fair share as well. Hatteras in comparison have very little/few warranty issues. Sunseekers layout is very very good, at least on say the 66' Manhattan, it's a true 4 stateroom, 8 adult guests boat. The 62' Princess is a 3 stateroom 6 guest boat, but kind of cramped for 6. Princesses crew staterooms absolutely SUCK, especially their 20" wide mattresses that they put in even the 70' Princess. The crew stateroom on the 66' Manhattan is plenty liveable for 2 adult guys. The 70' Princess is hard to compare to the 66' Manhattan as it's a whole different animal on size. The seakeeper spec'ed/installed/sold by Princess for the 62' is undersized by Seakeepers specs and will shut down with an alarm in 5-7' beam seas at 10 knots "brake pressure exceeded".
  14. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Mmm....
    With one guest cabin that requires to cross the corridor for accessing a shared bathroom on the opposite side?
    Seriously?
    I would be embarrassed to offer that to anyone who I call a friend of mine, in my humble 56 footer.
    And that's just one of several reasons why I would describe most Sunseekers (particularly in their Manhattan line) in a way that I happen to have learned in this forum, i.e. "sizzle and no steak" boats, in more ways than one. Real world performance included, BTW.

    Regardless, as I said, if there's one thing for which it neither takes a wide nor an in-depth experience for evaluating a boat, that's her layout and interior.
    So, I'm happy to accept that any view on this matter is as legitimate as mine.
    If dougboyd will see a 'Hattan 60 and he will like it, the fact that I don't is totally irrelevant!
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Having 4 normal sized, very usable staterooms in a 66' MY and a very usable crew stateroom for 2, is very hard to achieve. You will not find a 4 stateroom, 4 head boat in a 65' +/-. The only other one I know of with 4 staterooms and no bunk beds, is the 65' Searay, which has the same deal of walking across a corridor to the head for 1 stateroom and the 2 smaller staterooms aren't as nice. Plus the owners stateroom has it's own private staircase, which is rare. Not to mention 27 knot cruise and plenty of fuel/range.

    Just out of curiosity, what aspect of Sunseekers leads you to believe they're lower quality than other Euro or British brands?
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  16. mapism

    mapism Member

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    "Lower quality" is not the right way to put it, also because quality is a somewhat relative concept.
    I'd rather say different, and mostly focused at giving a good first, skin-deep impression, more than anything else.
    But frankly, I have zero interest to dismiss S/skr (or any other builder) in general.
    We already have enough sweeping generalizations in the forum, where builders are either praised or dismissed based on personal, often biased, views.

    But if you are really interested, I made a very extensive comparison for my own purchase (in a bit smaller size - 55 to 60 footers), which included also a Manhattan, among other boats.
    No problem to send you via PM a (rather long) list of the reasons why the S/skr didn't even enter my personal top 5 list, if you wish.
    And for most of them, I also had first hand feedbacks from owners of the same and also of larger Manhattans, confirming very accurately my own views.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Send it to me……..I'm curious to see it just for my own interest.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I have no personal experience with Riva, but on their flybridge models, the very deep draft makes then a NO GO for a lot of my customers.
  19. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Are you referring to any specific model?
    In their current lineup (90/100/110) I never heard anyone mentioning their draft as significantly deeper than comparable size boats.
    Unless compared with pods powered boats, maybe?
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Their drafts are consistent with many European boats. However, not ideal for East Coast cruising in the US or for the Bahamas. 5' is sort of a comfort number and 6' the outside range for this cruising. A 66' Ribelle has a draft of 5'11". A Manhattan 65 Sunseeker is 5'. A 66' is a little more. A Manhattan 68 is 5'4". A 76' Perseo is 6'3". In larger boats it's even more of a problem as the 100' Corsaro is 7'5". Our 85' Pacific Mariner is 5'. A 112' Westport is 6'. A 125' Westport is only 6'1".

    We love our Riva's but in looking at larger sizes, two factors always come into play. Range and Draft. Now some of the newer Riva models are better on draft, others are not. We did the Great Loop in a Manhattan 65, a large boat for that purpose. Wouldn't do the loop9 in a 66' Ribelle. We cut through the Okeechobee in our 85' Pacific Mariner. Wouldn't to that in a 76' Perseo.