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Best Quality Brands of 5-20 years old used motor yachts 40-75 feet?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Joe Deepwater, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. johnnry

    johnnry Member

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    Hi Capt j,what have you seen on the 2008 or 09 V-65 s..did they still use poke and stick wiring blocks?? Omg that's terrible!..ps do you think the hull design adequate for wind driven 4-5 ft close wave chop?
  2. Rnattis

    Rnattis New Member

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    Any knowledge of the quality of build/reliability of the prestige 46? 2019?
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Adequate yes in that kind of sea. I think they still did use poke and stick in that time frame. Actually if memory serves me right the new ones still do use poke and stick on all of the breakers.
  4. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    Capt J will you please define poke and stick wiring. I am unfamiliar with this method and can find no information in books or on the internet. As I stated earlier in this thread, I have found my wiring to be well thought out and reliable in a now 20 year old Princess/Viking SC. Below I have posted a couple of pictures of the 240/120 breaker panel and the main 24 V panel and backside wiring.

    Can you describe what is poke and stick wiring in the easily accessed main electrical panels shown in the pictures? Those breakers, connectors and power strips all look like standard DIN mount, properly labeled, screw tightened electrical hardware to me.

    Attached Files:

  5. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    Hi, I think chop and wind driven seas are where the Princess/VSC hulls do best. They have a fairly high deadrise (mine is IIRC 21 degrees) and forefoot/entry and as such steep head seas is where they are at their best, how they track in steeper following seas is also a strong point. On the other hand, in a strong head wind, without any real flare up front, it can be wet on the fly bridge. The other price to pay for having a a high deadrise is that at anchor or drift they tend to roll more then say a typical sport fish.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Poke and stick is where there is a spring tensioner that makes the contact with the terminal. Yours appear to have a screw terminal which is better, but also has a tendancy to loosen (not as badly as poke and stick) because there is so much plastic in the terminal blocks/breakers etc. that heats and cools off and the screw base is the only thing that provides tension. I'd recommend turning off all AC power and taking a screw driver and checking tension on every single screw on your terminal block.

    A 2001 VSC I dealt with had all poke and stick. The newer ones have some from what I've seen.

    The two terminal strips in the bottom of the picture have a much better way of tensioning the connections, the top row is poke and stick stuff but looks to be very light load DC stuff.

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?...ccid=els23Tgv&simid=608000190934224434&sim=11
  7. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    Your definition is what I assumed, but wanted to be sure. There are NO poke and stick terminals on my VSC boat. Every breaker panel has screw tightened terminals and none are of the spring load type, which I agree are far less reliable. I have not observed any of my screw tightened breakers or terminals coming loose. Perhaps because there are no overload conditions and so no significant heating and cooling issues and no real corrosion in the electrical panel areas - those are original 20 year old wiring panels.

    Are you sure about the 2001 - sounds like a big change from how they did all of the wiring on my 1998/9 boat.

    There is NO poke and stick in any of the above pictures. The top row in the top panel is indeed screw tightened breakers and in fact the 24 volt light load DC breaker layout has been very reliable and we never have had a breaker pop unexpectedly in 11 years of ownership.
  8. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Looks to be Merlin Gerin equipment. Schneider electric makes a quality product and is in use on some of the finest yacht builds in the world Oceanco and Lurssen to name two. Sometimes J gets a bit ahead of himself. Absolutely nothing deficient in your circuit protection equipment quality wise.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I was referring to the picture that I posted the link to(top row being poke and stick).
  10. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Princess and Fairline and also Azimut from the nineties all had Bernard Olesinski hulls. A hull design very much inspired to a Napier design IMO less entry and similar closing aft.
    The Olesinski hull usually enters at about 40 while if I remember well the Napiel one enters at about 45 to 50.
    21 degrees deadrise aft is unknown in a Princess as far as I know. Princess all had 15 to 18 degrees deadrise mostly 15. The new ones 2010 onwards are 12 to 15.
    The only 21 degrees deadrise closing (pure deep Vee) Olesinski hulls I know off are for a couple of the smaller Fairline Targa models the 37 and old 30/33 if I remember well.
  11. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    When I bought our 98/99 50 ft VSC/Princess I looked at dead rise, entry and forefoot (maybe 75 percent forward) closely as having a wider weather window was important as we both still work. I still have notes somewhere from a few azimuts, sea ray, Navigator, Fairline and a few others that were on the hard. At the time the Bernard Olesinski hulls as I remember had more deadrise aft and in the forefoot.

    I will be back on mine this weekend and can easily measure the deadrise aft (in the engine room) I have a nice digital level that makes it easy. I will post numbers and a pic this weekend. I remember 20 or 21 degrees, we will see. I do agree the more recent hulls are a few degrees flatter
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The new Princesses that I've seen out of the water......the 55' F and the 62' F seem to have a pretty steep deep V in the stern. While I haven't measured them, they sure look closer to 20 degrees. I'll be looking at the hull of a 52' tomorrow out of the water.
  13. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    If you appreciate the importance of dead rise look at Itama , Magnum and Otam .
    The build quality of the ones in the age range the threads about is excellent too .Mines got a 23 degree dead rise , most welcome in a head sea .

    There’s been a recent tendency to create lighter vac bagged hulls , smaller engines for the length than previous years and owners mid cabins .
    Flatter aft sections create more lift ( from less Hp ) and facilitate the above trend .Thats what you see with the current Princess range as an example, but the pressure to create a wow factor mid cabin ( to beat your competition) at a boat show is immense .It sells .
  14. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    At least with regards to the late 90’s early 2000’s Princess/VSC (unsure about the newer ones), they have a pronounced reverse chine, which specifically helps with aft lift and stabilizes the boat both at anchor and while underway. They also use strakes for stability and lift and prop pockets. All of these have a positive effect on fuel efficiency on a boat with a deeper vee. As Fiammetta42 said, it’s the entire package.

    The Princess/VSC are on the lighter side due to the extensive use of molded stringers and bulkheads (my 50 ft flybridge is ~42,000 lbs loaded) and benefits from the deeper vee in a head sea.

    To clarify your comments on stability at anchor and underway - stability includes roll, pitch and yaw. The deep vee helps slice through the waves while underway, but generally degrades roll stability. Strakes and chines help with roll stability. A gyro helps with roll stability but has no effect on pitch.
  15. Liberty

    Liberty Senior Member

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    I have a Fleming 65. Lovely boat.

    My next boat would be another Fleming 65 or a 78. But right now, I can’t see why we would change.
    hat4349 likes this.
  16. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    I measured my deadrise aft (50 ft 1998/99 VSC Princess) using a digital level inside near the dripless shaft seals and it was 19.5 degrees, but that could be slightly off as one cant tell if the laminate is a constant thickness near the keel. I did find a picture, that I attached here, that measures 20 degrees deadrise aft. The prop pockets are obvious in the picture but on either side is a straight 20 degree deadrise.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  17. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

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    I also found a picture of the hull forward that shows the forefoot around 35 degrees but also the strakes and start of the reverse chine.

    Attached Files:

  18. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I would say that is 18 degrees more or less how are most of Olesinski hulls. Actually his best hulls are the 15 degrees as on the old end 80s Fairline 50 IMO, and Princess 55.

    New Princess are less but unlike the old one have even less fore deadrise.
  19. dougboyd

    dougboyd New Member

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    Hi everyone!

    Its six months later, and I find myself in a similar position to the OP. I'm looking to buy a boat in the range under discussion. The main difference is that I'm on the West Coast in Las Vegas, and I will berth in San Francisco Bay (Alameda on the Oakland Estuary). Why there? Because there are lots of low-coast, 1 hour flights to Oakland airport from Las Vegas, and just a short ride to the Estuary from there, plus my wife and I love to return to a berth on the Estuary due to mild conditions there compared to elsewhere on the bay in the late afternoon or evening.

    I have to tell you that reading this thread was not that much help to me, and the main reason is that decision on a boat purchase is always a deep compromise between purchase cost, operational and maintenance cost, performance, and looks. These factors can be traded off in different ways among all of the choices mentioned in the thread, in a way that would support acquisition of almost any of the mentioned brands. We are all recreational boaters here, so we have no firm need for any particular selection factor or feature. In the end, we simply want to purchase the nicest choice we can afford.

    Just for background I have owned and operated boats on San Francisco Bay since 1970. Currently I am selling my 2003 Navigator 48 Classic because my wife bumps her head in the master cabin, and our six grandchildren are growing larger so we need more cabin space. The Navigator has been very inexpensive to own, purchase price was low, it uses very little diesel, maintenance expenses are low, and reliability is very high. But it is just a tad too small inside, and would benefit by about 150K$ of improvements such as backup camera, stern thruster, electronic engine controls, AIS, larger tender, canvas replacement, etc that are usually included on newer yachts. It is currently listed on YachtWorld at 299K and I have and we have a tentative buyer at the moment waiting for bank approval.

    The Navigator has a length overall of 52 feet 6 inches and requires a 53 ft. berth. I find I can easily tie up in San Francisco, Sausalito, or Angel Island with a boat of this size, but it would be more difficult in a 60-65 ft boat to find a convenient dock in the Bay or Delta. And of course fuel and maintenance expense will go up a lot, maybe 1.5-2x. So these are some of the tradeoffs I am looking at. My wife likes Euro-styled yachts. But she also gets queasy with rolling, and I have set a stabilizer system as a minimum requirement, either stabilizer fins or Seakeeper gyro. So my minimum spec for the next boat is: slightly larger than Nav-48, plus stabilizer, plus electronic controls, and Euro design.

    We looked at a 2010 Sunseeker Manhattan 60 that meets all of these requirements, but is listed at 1,150,000 which seems a bit high compared to Florida prices. I noticed that the consensus among experts on this forum is that Sunseeker is a quality brand, and there are no strident detractors as there are with most other brands except Hatteras. This Manhattan 60 has a LOA of 64 ft, so it will be a bit harder to dock, but perhaps easier to anchor and launch the dingy due to the hydraulic swim platform. We had also looked at the Marquis 65 and noted Capt J's anecdotal negative experiences which were somewhat confirmed when we closely examined some of the fittings. But overall we like the Marquis 65 and would not intentionally take her out in severe conditions. But this boat may be a bit too large for a owner operator couple who are getting up there in age, and the only one we could find with stabilizers already has 5500 engine hours.

    Anyway, after investing a morning reading this, I though I would share my thoughts as representative of another buyer who is looking in this range.

    ==Doug
  20. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Hello Doug,
    As a west coast Navigator owner I was interested in your search. Plus who doesn’t love boat searching.

    It seems the only draw back from a larger “Gator” would be the euro style for your sweetheart.
    I think she would adore the Master and Galley of the Navigator 6200 though.

    My pal here in Portland sells Pretige to Northwesters seemingly well, I bring that up because of the euro styling and there will be some previously owned on the west coast at least. They may be reasonably speced, being newer as well.

    Aside from that your search is as good as mine:)