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Bertram 46 V. Bertram 50

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by Albert Jr., Mar 7, 2015.

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  1. Albert Jr.

    Albert Jr. New Member

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    Hi everyone,
    I've been googling some of the older Bertrams just for fun and I started to wonder.

    What are the differences hull wise between the 80's and 90's Bertram 46 and the Bertram 50
    What are the pros and cons between these boats beside the fact that they're heavy ?

    Thanks in advance,
    Albert Jr.
  2. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    The 46 has 19 degrees of deadrise at the transom the 50 hast 17, so at rest in a sea way, the 50 is more comfortable.

    I have fished a late 80's 50 with a Marlin tower, 2 -stateroom galley down, the salon was gigantic, and great fishing platform. With 8V-92's she cruised about 22 - 23 knots and ate up the seas, especially straight-on. Did not have any structural issues, soft decks or whatever, was a tank I would love to have one today, a lot of boat for today's money. I don't think there was any production sf of that era her equal.
  3. Albert Jr.

    Albert Jr. New Member

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    Thankyou for the reply.
    I took a closer look at the 50 and it looks like the bow was also lower and the strake line went up higher than the 46.

    I would love to have either of them one day. I've also noticed that some people have tried to give these boats a carolina look.
    I even have a buddy who sent his Bert 54 to Bayliss for a complete refit. They also have a Bayliss 64.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I can't comment on the older 50's, but what I can say is that Bertram made it's reputation on the mopie and the 46 IMHO. I've run several 46s from the 80's, and they're tanks. I'd take them out in anything and be quite confident of getting home.
  5. Albert Jr.

    Albert Jr. New Member

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    It would be nice if the new owners of the company would make a model maybe 46 with that same mindset.
  6. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I wouldn't count on it. Aside from what lies ahead for Bertram, if anything ...in general the reason you don't see many new flybridge sportfish models being built under 50' is the market will not support the cost.
  7. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    There is a glut of used 80s - 90s production SF that can be had for a "song and a dance" compared to what they would sell as a newly developed product. A somewhat cottage industry exists in redoing these boats to a small crowd, but it is not formal but is there nonetheless.

    These boats were not designed for the 40 knot speeds that we typically see today, as the diesel power of their era was not quite dense enough yet (high hp/low weight) and the construction techniques were still evolving. They can easily be repowered into a reasonable 27-28 knot cruise / 34-35 knot WOT.

    Not sure what is a Carolina look SF means, except for their trademark bow flare, maybe the earlier reference is for a Palm Beach style SF?
  8. Albert Jr.

    Albert Jr. New Member

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    If the site allows it, I can post a pic so you can understand what I'm talking about when saying carolina look.
  9. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    You can post a link to a listing and the images you mean. Or the listing title and location.
  10. Albert Jr.

    Albert Jr. New Member

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  11. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Nice refit, you couldn't duplicate that today at under $500K.

    I like the cockpit mezzanine. I would venture to say that the aft salon bulkhead window treatment is fairly universal for a SF, from New Jersey to Miami, does not really call out any specific region in my opinion.

    There was a 54 Bertram in San Diego that had the full Merritt refit/treatment, including Teak Transom, was a real looker as well.
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    A boat with bones like an 80's Bert or Hat is so worth it. When finished it'd take over $2M for the same thing new. The trouble comes in getting your money out of it, and in financing a 30 y.o. vessel. Although you've got the equivalent of a $2M yacht, it competes for sale with others of the same vintage that haven't been refit. So it depends on finding a knowledgeable buyer who wants the best instead of just the latest. It's really best for someone who plans to hang onto her. When I was growing up, boats like this would be kept for a lifetime and passed down. Unfortunately today people trade in their million dollar boats like they're cars costing a few thousand. Nice to see there are some smart people who respect their money out there. One of our members captains a Hat M/Y that's been nicely refit, and is now for sale asking about 1/3 more than the comps currently listed. If there's a smart buyer with a little money out there he'll get a good buy at that price, as the others will probably end up costing more once refit. I'm watching closely to see if he exists as we're in a similar situation.

    I took special note of RER's post: ".in general the reason you don't see many new flybridge sportfish models being built under 50' is the market will not support the cost." It's very true. I get the feeling that we're building skyscrapers with no foundations by abandoning that under 50' market, but who'll risk their personal money for the industry when they can just borrow mega-money and go for the big score and let stock holders take the hit if they're wrong. I'm glad to see that some are, at least in the refit market, and I wish the luck.
  13. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    had the privilege to put together and run a 1988 50' bertram.... (hull 14 ??) it was the biggest piece of s----- i ever ran..... I'm still bitter about the experience
  14. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Viking is selling a lot of 42s at nearly 3/4 of a million dollar a piece. Three years after launching the first 42 (and about this time last year) they launched hull number 40, in what today (and at that time) is available in four different platforms but with the same hull.

    To return to Gavio Group (supposedly new Bertram owners), you can never be sure what they do.
    Last year they did launch a fully custom alloy 45 feet Baglietto which costed a lot of money to build....
  15. Bertram Man

    Bertram Man New Member

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    I had a Bertram 1986 - 46 Mark III for 4 years ( No Tower) and a 50 Ber 1989 (Yes Tower) for 12 years...Differences are:

    50 x 46

    Better space and bed in the Master Stateroom
    3 staterooms x 2 in the 46
    2 bathrooms vs 1 in the 46
    A completely drier ride in the 50 on 7 to 8 foot seas... With the 46 it was like a shower
    Much better flying bridge and a larger area...
    Ride quality very good in both boats -
    Tough in following seas also for both -

    When I purchased the boat I rebuilt both engines. However, after 1.000 hours some cilinders (close to the turbo 2 on each side) needed
    replacement... 8V92 in the Bertram 50 tough after 1.000 hours -

    In the 46 they didn't tweaked the engines so it lasts much longer

    If I had a 50 again - I would buy with 12V-71. Best engines and better than 12V92s

    I did 1.500 hours in 12 years - not a lot but very concentrated...I was out in the ocean for a month at times...I was never stranded but kept boat in top shape... I had my share of problems when navigating such as: Fuel cooler and return ( port side of the port) engine. I discovered it by the strong smell of diesel leaking in the engine room...Had to fly the mechanic from Miami to Nassau with the part .

    Looking to buy a 54 - 1989 - I am on it...
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Someone would be MUCH better off buying an early 2000's 50' Post (or similar) with more modern power, much more fuel efficient and 26 knot cruise and much less rocking and rolling than either an old Bertram, Viking, or Hatteras (80's- mid 90's era).
  17. C team

    C team Senior Member

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    Just be wary of the late 90's to early 2000's Posts with the gel coat issues.
  18. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    As much as I'm a fan of some of the older boats I have to agree with this strategy.

    If it's your forever boat and you know what you're doing buy whatever you want. But if you expect to sell it and get even a modest return of $$$ you should buy the newest boat possible.

    Older boats are increasingly becoming white elephants.
  19. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Truer words were never spoken.

    BTW, the 46 hull's strakes were eventually removed (1982-1983?--amidships and after-sections) to reduce wetted surface + more speed in a bid to compete with Jack Leek's Ocean 46.
    Gawd, she was a roller. For the historians out there, the 8V-92s in 1986 were bumped to 735HP necessitating the addition of "bubbles" in her hull form as larger trannies replaced the older Twin Discs.
    The 50 hull represented to new design thinking from the 54--wide chine flats forward and increasingly wider all the way to the transom = drier ride + stable in a beam sea. Poster above--'Salty Senior'--loses all credibility with me. Boo.
    True, the 50 had all the innards the 54 had--staterooms, TVs, galley, two gensets--but with less HP and less LWL, so you could practically see the sweat breaking on her eyebrow as she struggled to get on plane. Shoulda been a 52, as one engineering poobah told me.
    Ten cyl. MANs more or less ameliorated that condition.
    1989-ish 50 sold (under donation) in 2006-ish for $125K. In 2010, a similar year model 50 sold @ $117K as a bank repo.
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Those have long since been sorted out. I am familiar with one, it was Awlgripped in 2004, still looks good, still have no cracks coming through.