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Bernie Madoff's Rybovich Sportfish "Bull"

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by JWY, Dec 9, 2009.

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  1. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Yes - it was always a "Bull" market for old Bernie and the politicians and regulators who supported his behavior.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't he just donate the $700k to victim restitution?
  3. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    I think you're not understanding, because it makes perfect sense.

    The US Marshals will not get top dollar, they want the fastest possible transaction... so the boat is sold for $700k (if that was the number). This guy buys it, puts the polish back on it, touches it up, and finds the right buyer for $1.5MM... the difference after taxes goes to the Madoff victims.

    It's not a $700k donation, it's a purchase and sale transaction with a sale value yet to be determined, and thus a further benefit to the Madoff victims also yet to be determined.
  4. revdcs

    revdcs Senior Member

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    And...

    If the tax laws are similar to the UK then, as a charitable gift, there should be little or no tax on the donation.

    Big respect to the new owner for going to all that trouble for no personal reward.
  5. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Thanks for the comments. The way I see it, the owner intended to keep the boat before he bought it. Once he got to know the vintage Rybo and came to appreciate what she is and her condition, he knew he was in a yacht that was not appropriate for his needs. He thought he was getting a family fishing boat, not a classic pedigreed tournament winner. This is my speculation, not confirmed facts, but...

    So he could sell the Rybo and get his money back, he could make a profit, or he could make a profit and further assist the victims with the profit donation.

    The owner has asked me for privacy which is more good news - this purchase wasn't for publicity, ego, or 5 minutes of fame.

    Judy
  6. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    I think Madoff should be keelhauled under one of his other boats.
  7. revdcs

    revdcs Senior Member

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    He will be getting worse than that in Jail.

    Were you one of his victims?
  8. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    No, I just hate people who do what he did. Con men are the scum of the earth. But if the Republican SEC had being doing its job of oversight he would have been caught very early on.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    One good thing about this economy, the scammers are being flushed out. Pretty soon they'll outnumber the crackheads in jail. Too bad they don't usually go to general population.
  10. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Until the spaceship lands, and the Martian (a/k/a "The Right Buyer") gets out and stretches all his/her legs, Bull will fetch something less than the $700K market price paid by Judy's guy because

    1) boats depreciate
    2) fewer termites are holding hands
    3) the bilge pump just took a dump
    4) see #1
    5) rust never sleeps and hoseclamps know this
    6) a disgruntled investor/eggthrower may have a good aim
    7) potential buyers inspect the vessel and leave with 'souvenirs'.
    8) accrual of dockage, insurance, washings, caretaker fees, brokerage commissions, varnish work, bottom paint, fixing busted stuff, etc.
    9) "I saw it on Yacht Forums (so it must be true) that the last guy paid $700K, so I won't pay more than that!"
    10) "IT WAS OWNED BY WHO!!!???"

    IMHO.
  11. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Loren --

    Although you and I usually agree (2 recent examples are surveys on new yachts and Bertram :) ) I disagree with some of your comments on the resale of BULL :mad:

    You haven't seen BULL nor read the specs. This is a vintage Rybo in impressive condition and is one of a kind in all regards. She deserves a premium for her pedigree and condition, and there will be additional bragging value to the eventual owner.

    Judy
  12. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Because this way he's only turning over the profits, not the capital. I don't get it anyway, the people who bought into Bernie's scheme did so out of greed. Many people, myself included, when presented the opportunity, did just a bit of due diligence and figured there was no way this could be working and didn't buy in. It was pretty obvious really that there were problems.
  13. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Problem with "premium" toys is they require a premium market to sell for their premium. In the market as it exists today the only thing the premiums of the vessel buy the owner is whether it gets sold or not. 3 years ago the boat may well have been $1.5MM, but not any more, and I doubt it will again in any reasonable time frame considering the holding costs of that boat which to keep her in her current condition are going to be north of $50k annually. As for prior ascertations of Marshals auctions not bringing full value, that is not a definitive statement in my experience. I have worked for National Liquidators and tried to buy aircraft and boats at public auctions and frequently see them going for greater than retail value.
  14. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Judy, my apologies...I didn't mean to offend and I hope that you'll find it in your heart to forgive me. If Bull does indeed sell for more than your client just spent for her, that would be swell but it would run counter to 99% of my experiences regarding prices paid for boats and their subsequent worth.

    Peace.
  15. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Differing opinions don't connote offense and certainly no apology necessary.

    IMHO, the circumstances of BULL just don't quite fit into the 99% category. A new buyer may see an opportunity to own an spectacular yacht and feel there's charitable (or ego boosting) benefits also. No one has a crystal ball on resale value, so time and/or $$ will tell.

    Judy
  16. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    I think priced at $895k hell get it sold. Most of the spare speculative money right now in the sector that would buy that boat is in real estate right now. The deals are available and the chance of a good return is much higher. This isn't exactly a "new buyer" market boat either. I think he'll make money on it, but he isn't going to double it, that's for sure.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I haven't seen Bull nor read the specs, BUT I do know to maintain a sportfish of that vintage and type takes VERY deep pockets. I could see the boat bringing $850k, but not $1.5mill. There are too many other pedigree sportfishes for sale such as Merritts, Jim Smiths, Rybovichs, etc. for a song and a dance........
  18. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    true but this boat is a ''virgin''
  19. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    ??? In what sense? In my experience a "virgin" boat is a sail boat with no engine, typically refers to a larger sailboats.
  20. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    not to mention the elevator...;)
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