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Azimut 53 vs Sunseeker 55

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by tader2112, Oct 30, 2021.

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  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That dealer is no longer a Sunseeker Dealer. They're now sold by OneWater Yacht Group.
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Sadly, you did not mention he was no longer in the business..
    Still an eye opener of shady people.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Sadly, he just picked right up where he left off. People haven't gotten their money. And he's now pushing Astondoa. Astonishes me that any builder would let him have their line after the Sunseeker fiasco. But then his previous business breakup was not without problems either.
  4. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I had assumed that the dealer in question was no longer a dealer for Sunseeker. I thought the OP should read the thread for its educational value. It was an eye opener for me that the different Sunseeker entities could serve to make legal redress much more difficult.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    And an eye opener for everyone buying a new boat that the people you're buying from may not be the people building it and you need a means of insuring what you're paying actually goes to the builder. The contract you're handed to sign will not protect you so get a good attorney and only agree to what protects you. I believe, and I told Sunseeker management directly, that they failed to properly manage their dealer over the years and then it rose to bite them. Either they were aware of what the dealer was doing, which would make them complicit, or they were unaware, which would make them derelict in their duties.

    Turner filed against all the parties over his boat on 5/24/2019. The first partial judgement was made on 10/20/2021 which was just one part and basically said Obey's attempt to not be sued was overruled. As of 10/28/2021 they are still in discovery and interrogatories. Turner is still without all his money except his $18,000 in sales tax was refunded. This is the ugly truth of how cases can turn out. If you buy from a dealer, often the only people involved in the contract are you and the dealer, even if you've had a lot of communication with the builder.

    In the case of Kakawi vs. Marlow there were months of argument over which Marlow entity or entities. Contract was actually with a non existent entity. A beginning law clerk would have caught that.

    In some cases, the financial strength is the builder. In others, it may be the dealer. For instance, would you rather trust Marine Max and One Water Marine or Galeon and Belize? If I'm a US buyer, I'd rather trust the two dealers in this case. However, these are large, publicly traded dealers. Even there make sure which company you're actually contracted with as it may be a subsidiary sales group with no real assets.
    FlyingGolfer and bliss like this.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    This thread may be of help to the OP.
  7. dcwjd

    dcwjd New Member

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    Manhattan 55 has Volvo 800 shaft drive
  8. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Yup, D13s I believe. But if you mean shafts ONLY, that's not correct.
    The builder offer a choice of either that, or IPS propulsion (IIRC with the so-called 1050 system, which is still based on the same engine anyway), hence the comment in my post that you quoted.
  9. dcwjd

    dcwjd New Member

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    You can order the boat with IPS if you desire but at FLIBS they said most to date built have the Volvo 800 shafts. The Ferretti flybridge is not anywhere near as nice as the Manhattan 55. You can only put one gps screen up there fpr starters. I also wouldn't want to drive from the left side and be so far back.
  10. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I struggle to understand what your point is. In my first post of this thread I wrote...
    the fact that S/skr offers the choice between pods and shafts is even more concerning, since any hull can only be optimized for either one or the other propulsion, and never for both.

    Now, this is a choice made at the drawing board, and how many of one or the other versions are eventually sold afterwards is totally irrelevant, because the hull (as well as weight distribution, and also other implications) remains a marketing-driven compromise regardless, "by design", so to speak.

    That said, if you prefer the S/skr, who am I to argue?
    I hope you don't mind if I say that neither of your two reasons seem to me as relevant as the basic boat design, but...
    ...your money, your choice! :)
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    And the hulls of Sunseekers are all really designed for shafts. They do run fine with pods, but they do not take advantage of all pods have to offer. For instance, pods generally clear space on the lower level either for the cabins and lazerette. The Sunseeker pods simply have extra space in the engine room.

    On our 65, pods were offered and they had slightly more top end speed and better fuel efficiency. I trialed one with pods and it performed quite well, although mid range performance didn't equal the MANS. The engine choices were 1000 hp or 1200 hp Mans, similarly sized CAT's although I'm not aware of anyone using them, and pods. We took the 1200 hp pods.

    Still, knowing the heritage of all the hulls and designs, they're maximize for shafts. Meanwhile their neighbor, Princess, started early designing hulls for pods.

    I would personally only consider the 55 with the shafts, although I believe the pods perform fine on it. Just seems to me, why go to pods with the negatives they have if you don't pick up the positives alone with them.

    I think the Sunseeker 55 is one of the top boats in it's range. The series performs well, rides well for it's size, and the interior and deck designs are quite good.

    Yes, there are other options out there but not going to try to discuss them all in this thread.
  12. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Can't recall any engine above 1000hp, in VP range.
    They just don't have the standing to compete with the big boys.
    I guess you're referring to the so-called IPS 1200, but that's actually powered by a 900hp version of the D13.

    Regardless, IPS on a 'Hattan 65 rather than MANs on shafts?!?
    And pay more for them (either 100 or 200 k$ ballpark vs. the MAN 1000 or 1200 respectively, according to Sskr price list), to add insult to injury? Well, I can only reiterate my previous conclusion: your money, your choices! :D
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Typing mistake. We took the 1200 hp MAN's, not pods.
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Now U R talking!
  15. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    A perfect single hull for both IPS and shafts does not exist. And I repeat this about IPS not pods.
    The forward facing nature of IPS and its side momentum listing, in the first hull made Volvo requesting a certain hull design.
    A good hull for IPS can be good for shafts if you make the geometries fit with where you are putting the engines. The other way round not.

    Now as for IPS I must admit some new just presented models like the Sunseeker 65 Sport Yacht and upcoming Predator and Azimut 68 Fly are doing some impressive fuel consumption numbers with IPS.
    Ten litres per Nautical miles at 25 knots for both these yachts are pretty impressive consumption figure IMO. A Ferretti 670 with shafts consumes about 13/14 liters per NM. An old Azimut 68 Plus consumed about 15. Just to put the numbers into perspective.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2021
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Ten litres per Nautical Miles is what our Delta 80' (triple IPS/1200) consumes att 30 knots, to give you another perspective...
  17. Yoni1982

    Yoni1982 New Member

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    How would the Galeon 550/560 rate here?
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You can’t even compare these two boats. The azimut is in a much lesser league than sunseeker