Click for Northern Lights Click for Cross Click for CL Yachts Click for Llebroc Click for YFYS

AquaAir Chiller Keeps faulting

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by Danvilletim, Jun 24, 2021.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,265
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Yeah, I can see where issues at the genny could impact voltage irregularities, but I don't see the correlation to the chillers in the manner shared as the faults. I suppose it is a variable that needs to be corrected on its own merit, but I think once corrected you'll still have issues at the chillers. Chillers are very sensitive to water flow/cooling. More water is better than not enough. 1/2 HP sounds light to me for 10, and having some water supply issues at cruise that pulls that water flow below the threshold seems like a more likely culprit here. But certainly fix the genny issues, too.
    Capt J likes this.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,123
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    1/2HP is really light for 10 tons of a/c chillers, especially if they're stacked and you have 10' of head pressure. Upgrade the pump and see if the problems go away.
  3. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,265
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Likely there isn't more than 4 or 5 feet of head pressure, BUT as the water line splits to feed two coils that volume doubles, increasing the typical design load for the pump.

    Curious would be whether the trouble solely rests with the top unit, or if both are having the same error code issues.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,123
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    He said they're stacked (one on top of the other) plus it's a 92' yacht. Every stacked system I've seen, the hoses were a good 6' or 7' above engine room floor level. Either way, I think 1/2 HP is way too small for raw water.
  5. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    No they aren’t stacked. And faults happen to both chillers. A new pump is on the way. I went with exact replacement. The old pump was surging which could be a sign of a bad impeller. Or bad pickup. Manufacturer didn’t recommend going bigger as he thought it would wear out chillers faster. He confirmed the boat was built with 10 tons. Which at the dock has the boat as cold as you want.

    I got a new chilled water pump as well. Not sure this is the fix but it’s going in right direction.

    And our 38kw genset that was not starting.... I found a bad / failing relay. Took a Northern lights class and it paid off,
  6. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    Is it possible that the chiller controllers do not like the quality of the power from the Genny ?
  7. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Possibly. Other than hertz how would you test
  8. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,265
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    1) run it at the dock under supply by the genny and see if the errors return.
    2) run it at the dock under supply from the other genny. Does it duplicate?
    3) apparently it seems to run fin at the dock under shore power, right?
    4) if you can get it to duplicate at the dock while not moving, you can narrow the issue possibly to power, but you need to duplicate the faults while stationary. If you can replicate, then also while stationary run the test with a temp source of raw water, bypassing your chest.

    These steps will reduce the variables in your puzzle.
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,265
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Monitor your voltage with a quality and steady load on the genny. You're looking for low voltage, dropping below 100 volts per leg. HVAC wants a minimum of 98 volts before it turns wanky. Start the genny and load it up.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,136
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I agree. You need to troubleshoot this methodically. Hopefully the new raw water pump will solve the problem though.

    voltage and frequency are the two critical factors but if either dropped temporarily you would notice. Lights would dim a little, the generator would sound different, air handlers woudl slow down.

    that said with frequency drives I wonder how the compressor would react to a temporary dip. I don’t think they shut down altogether
  11. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,265
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    I've run without significant issue at 96v per leg. Mind you everything was hot, but it was running. Power service was supplied from a 13k to 208 city transformer. The 208 then ran 400 feet to the pedestal. By the time the power reached the Atlas it was at 96 volts per leg. The Atlas and buck boost were able to adjust up to around 108 per leg, but when I had to bypass for Atlas service, the units saw the 96. I was holding my breath a bit as we scrambled to get the Atlas back on line.

    Went and got my own buck boost for 208 to 240. Installed it during the night to the main panel coming off my breaker. Problems solved. 230 to the boat and amperage consumption cut way back. Paid for itself in the first two months. Meter was at the pedestal.
  12. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,079
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    If new pump doesn't solve your issue you may also be getting dirty power out of your gen. I'm not talking about voltage or Hz drops but potentially a poor sine wave pattern . Doing the testing at the dock on gen vs. shore power is a great way to drill down on the source of your issue. If you do find it is gen related but not seeing voltage drops you may want to meter the quality of your power. Especially given you have VFD's. Do you have any other sensitive electronic equipment acting weird while on gen power?
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,727
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Anybody have an O scope near by.
    Look at the wave form and confirm the freq?
    I may have missed it, what is the exact error?
  14. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,265
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Error is it’s hot out.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,727
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    No error, an event;
    Happens every year about this time.

    Just learned; even in Alaska.
  16. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    I my mind a goofy wave form would be more of an inverter problem than a generator problem

    But

    Maybe your freq drives don't like the genny wave form for some reason.
    As a weak example, my digital dimmers don't like my generator.
    Period.
    They just don't work or sometimes they raise the lights a little bit then stop, all by themselves.
    The voltage from my gen is good and no other appliance or device is affected.
    I don't really care that the dimmers are finicky and never bothered to look at it any closer.
    This happened with my old gen also.

    If your freq drives are sensitive, a heavy load engaging may make your gen slow then recover, which may frustrate the freq drives causing them to send a false alarm ?
    If your chillers are 240, maybe the phasing is just a little off between A & B ?

    If you can check at the breaker feeding the chiller with a meter like the link below, while on shore power and gen power it will tell the tale.

    You can rent these type meters but some are so inexpensive that you can purchase one just a cheap.

    https://www.wish.com/product/5d85bfeef3ec4a1ec76878f7?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=msft_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force_currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=5d85bfeef3ec4a1ec76878f7&ad_cc=US&ad_lang=EN&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=65.67&campaign_id=410530392&msclkid=782030ffee8112d1d2a1502102b5e647&share=web
  17. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,079
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Have you run your system sitting at the dock while on gen power yet?
    rtrafford likes this.
  18. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    New price pumps ( raw and chill )went in yesterday as well as glycol. Couldn’t get it to fault yet. Didn’t have time to leave the dock but tried the genset and mains running.

    The pumps didn’t look good. Some of the connections were definitely letting air in.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,123
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Next figure out how to read your loop temperature. Most displays in the cabin will display them, on others you have to read it on the chiller. When running the boat, look at the loop temp compared to at the dock.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,136
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    That would be nice... I don’t think cruisair is that advanced though. Sometimes I aim and zoom the ER cam on the cruisair display...