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Air-Electric Drive System

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by TRY, Oct 23, 2006.

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  1. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    I'msorry!

    Dear K1W1,

    Please apologize; I did not mean at all to be arrogant.
    The technical statement says what it does and it is correct according to industry standards (as far as we think).

    As for the second part of your reply - you already put this question (#30) on 12-10-2006, to which I replied with accuracy (#33) on 12-12-2006.
    So, I am a shareholder and as such I'm participating very actively in the worldwide marketing of the territorial licences within MDI.

    So far 45 agreements are signed, more on this tomorrow.... :)
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks for answering my questions(twice).

    I asked in Post# 45 about where the heat from the 800 Deg air charge would be going and you replied in #46.

    If I understand your words corectly "serious expansion" is going to reduce the temperature and it will be carried away from the engine by an exhaust pipe.

    Isn't the whole puropse of heating up the air so much to enable greater pressure and more "power" to be extracted from it?

    If it is going to be cooled by serious expansion to the point that the heat is not an issue isn't this going to reduce or negate the benefit of heating it up so much in the first place?

    Just one more question.

    How hot do you calculate the engine as a whole will get when it is in service and has been running for an hour or so?
  3. The Reverend

    The Reverend New Member

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    Efficiency Calcs

    Try,
    I have been following this thread with interest since it began. I admire your enthusiasm for pushing the envelope with new developments in engine design however; I’m interested how you calculated an efficiency of .85 for this engine given that from the pictures you posted earlier this month
    1) I can see eight pulley/gears
    2)There is a belt
    3)That the engine has a lot of cooling fins which indicate there is a large amount of heat loss
    4)The engine is on rubber mounts this indicating that the engine has some kind of cyclical component.

    Some basic figures would be enough as I understand there is some commercial confidentiality required on your part.
    Regards

    Rev
  4. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Answers to K1W1

    The expansion itself cools the compressed air, from 30 bars at entrance of expansion chamber we go down to athmospheric pressure, hence the cooling.

    The heating to create more volume is indeed a very interesting way to extend range, that's all.

    Temperature of the engine (or motor) as a whole in normal use will be around 40-50°C, not more.

    Therefore in series production a great number of parts will be made of plastic, lighter, cheaper.
  5. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I understand the concept of expanded air cooling, this is how the A/C works in Passenger Aircraft when at cruising altitude and speed.

    Can you help me to understand just how this works.

    Is the expansion chamber you refer to here the Cylinder(s) of the motor?
  6. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    For K1W1

    Correct, what we call expansion chambers are indeed the cylinders of the engine.
  7. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Reply for The Reverend

    Guten Nachmittag Bremen aus Süd-Frankreich!

    OMG, nice to see the Church is interested! :)

    No, that's only a joke.

    We have 270° work per cycle, because we have two pistons per cylinder.
    Simple mechanics, but the engineers are geniuses!
    More degrees of work per cycle results in more efficiency.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks again for your answers to my questions.

    Now I am really confused.

    In answer to my earlier questions you wrote

    "The expansion itself cools the compressed air, from 30 bars at entrance of expansion chamber we go down to athmospheric pressure, hence the cooling."

    You then went on to post in answer to my subsequent question that the expansion chamber is the cylinder.

    Could you please explain to the unitiated just how it is possible to generate any motive force at all -even enough to push down the piston ,when you have clearly stated that the compressed air which going by your previous posts is the sole means of push is admitted to the expansion chamber/cylinder at atmospheric pressure is thereby no longer compressed and so therfore it has no push at all unless there is a vacuum in the crankcase.

    Please feel free to correct my interpretation of the machine and it's function.

    I look forward to your reply.
  9. The Reverend

    The Reverend New Member

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    Efficiency

    Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately you have now further confused me regarding “the fair and justified” .85 efficiency. With only 270 degrees of work per cycle therein lies a further energy loss this combined with the “classical exhaust system with valves, etc.” (Post 47) - is starting to make you claim look a bit questionable. Please - prove me wrong!

    At the moment I think the church would be interested as we have a miracle on our hands :)
  10. Ju52

    Ju52 Senior Member

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    can we make numbers ?

    Hi all

    can we have any numbers / calculations

    How many HP can we have out of this (one) Engine? 25KW or more? What about multi-motors to increase the power?

    How many compressed air do I need to go with 10kn and 150HP over 3000sm?
    (= 300 hours running time)

    From calculations I need 5 motors (25kW ~ 34HP) ... must fill the salon with air storages ?

    I can put compressed air in short time in the tanks with more power (at shelf) or with less power (150HP) in a longer time.

    Can you give us more ?

    Thanks
    Gerhard
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007
  11. MaxResolution

    MaxResolution Senior Member

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    Air Motor

    TRY- I like the assumptive reasoning, because it is preclusive to the 'art' of science. As I said to my architect yesterday, "it sure is refreshing to deal with a professional who's always willing to assert himself with distinct opinions, pro-or-con. ...We have to butt heads to get this job done," -mates! :)

    I once saw the "world's most amazing" S/Y in the harbour in Aukland. Y'all probably know the legend about this one. To set sail, she required the deconstruction of Two freeway bridges across the Brisbane harbour. The fore-deck accomodates a dance-floor for 300 people! The elliptical aluminum mast has a profile that would encircle a VW-bug. It's 'owner' was the Gov's of NZ and AU, it's probably still being held for back-taxes. :(

    But, the first time I ever paid any attention to any sea-worthy craft was in Cannes. My interests, (and sole reason for visiting France, in '76,) was Impressionistic painting. My small 'aquarelles' of these picturesque hillside-views fetched about 1-200f. This enabled me to spend 2 months painting in NICE. Sadly, I returned to *Arkansas* and never gave another thought to boats until just recently. Soon, I hope to be working with a major systems integrator in Ft. Lauderdale, so it's high time I learned about all these interesting issues that become so mission-critical on the high seas!

    Diesel appears to be the winner, overall. I do have a problem with bio-fuels because of the poor eco-CO2-exchange rates. We are ALL being forced to accept GM corn as a substitute for the good stuff. Next, Monsanto will introduce other varieties of 'Terminator' seeds, and it's "goodbye Gaza" after that!

    The only sure recourse we have today is the use of 'over-unity' single-pole motors for recharging batteries. You can *halve* your stats for future electric vehicle weight requirements, once you get those deep-cells reconditioned. After merely going solar, one famous sailor reported; the best use for his 125kw generator was as an anchor! You've got to see the specs at John Bedini's site to appreciate the benefits of 'cold-charging' those deep-cells. Now it's possible to get about double the mileage in 1/3 the charging w/h.

    *Those who don't have a clue what we are going on about should start here: http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Congress:Top_100_Technologies_--_RD

    I'll post more cool links later.
  12. Ju52

    Ju52 Senior Member

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    and the perfect energy ...

    Thanks for the link.

    We have 2 main goals in energy research

    - store more energie on on small volumes and weights
    The limit is the famous formula from Einstein e = m * c^2
    How much money is used for nuclear research etc.. in the last 50 vears ???

    ---- give me a pound of anything an we have enough energie ... on a boat we can take water :D

    - to form energy withou loss , from stored energy to mechanical energy etc..

    OK

    how to store a big volume of 300 bar gas? What is the weight of this unit?
    I found an sample engine ... and will append the picture :)
    This locomotive runs one day with heated steam / water

    good night from Germany

    Attached Files:

  13. MaxResolution

    MaxResolution Senior Member

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    Air & Steam & Electromagnetics

    Look at the battery demonstration, about 1/2 way down this page:
    http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html
    ...And imagine getting all that power out of the tiny whirly-bird atop your mast!

    Next, consider the overall impact of all the subugated-technologies discussed here:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6044955461813547423
    * This film will cost you 1hr and 10 minutes, but it's the finest coverage of Bearden to date.

    There you have it. Take the entire diapole-theory and dump it in the trash. It was proliferated solely to earn the elites a permanent advantage over the masses, and Today, it's killing the world's cultures in an exponential manner. (Need I mention the race to destroy Iran?)

    'Mag-levitation' Trains, particularly Monorails, offer 30 times the advantages to the system that we could ever realize from roadways. But, we are told that 'Monorails' are far too expensive to build...

    Just, count me out of this madness, -for good. I'm primarily interested in 'safe-passage,' as in a one-way trip to the 4th World. Someplace far from everyone, where all you need from 'society' is a fishing-hook, a permanent match and a few yards of weatherproof tarp!

    TRY, what ever happened with that Ozzie 'orbital motor'? I'm referring to the one Ford bought to shelve. It got like 100mpg. As the ball starts moving, it's on the vertical plane, as the speed increases, it provides gyro stability for the vehicle, (no levellers required) and a ball-drive, which provided a perfectly smooth transmission, not that the air-motor requires one. (That transmission is now available for bicycles, but I lost the link.)
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Innovation

    Thanks for that link...interesting summary of works in progress


    I suspect we have some similar interest. I came back from working in SE Asia in the mid-ninties with a renewed interest in 'monorails' only to find much of the USA referring to them as 'amusement park rides' rather than really taking them serious as the Japanese have done. The Germans had done some of the most serious prototyping work on Maglevs. Amazing lack of consideration of techno work accomplished by other countries by many here in the USA that seem to believe that only this country can really produce real innovation. Frustrating to deal with pigheadness.


    Careful here, you might end up like this Mexican fisherman:D
    Boating, Fishing, Siesta http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/29291-post36.html
  15. MaxResolution

    MaxResolution Senior Member

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    Three Tuna and a Pram

    That's it, mate! Surely there are some ports o'call where 3 deep-water Tuna are easily worth a prime, double-wide ocean-front lot.

    I sure needed a good laugh. With each post our world gets a little smaller, a little more user-friendly, and a lot more fun...

    The main reason I need a self-powered boat, is that I want to overtake a big ketch, while strumming my electric guitar, with bronze-bikinied deck-hands from stem to stern: "Look Ma, No sails!"

    Try is out to beat me just for the general 'no-noise' effect! :)
  16. Ju52

    Ju52 Senior Member

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    Okay Okay

    come back to air-drives.

    I posted the picture because its relation to our discussion.

    The machine brings 400HP over one day ( 8 hours) under 6 bar. (OK - compressed steam).

    If we go to 300bar - we come back to factor 50 .. then multiply 6 hours with 50 to fit a passagemaker time to cross a ocean.

    But this steam storage is only for 6 bar, how it must constructed for 300bar?
    What about the weight (20 tons?) ... and the needed volume ...

    OK thats will work for small vessels for short times.

    have a nice weekend
  17. MaxResolution

    MaxResolution Senior Member

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    Capacity is the issue!

    It is important to reference the image of the steam locomotive. To travel a distance it requires additional fuel. The fuel to weight ratio is very little. She requires just a few sticks of wood/calories per mile/km. It is the steam which is so efficient, and has proven to be so on boats.

    But, the Rockefeller/Rothchilds said; these numbers are not good enough! To travel, you must use Gas, and Oil... "Our Oil!" ..."and Saudi Oil!" Some of us thought, huumm, if that is the case, I'd rather walk.

    That's why I'm proud to see Try's bunch utilize a continuous, low-pressure compressed 'air motor.' It is superb for local travel, but the current range is not unlike an automobile. Air simply will not compress all that much.

    This machine (link) requires 7lbs of -input pressure- to generate enormous -expansion- of water. This, in-turn, can drive a terrific turbine, at relatively low torque. Again, the MAIN issue is transferring the energy and overcoming the friction. The 'reciprocating' element, as I see it, can be moved upstream of that reaction, not downstream, thus the 'ram-pump' continuous pressure generator at the inlet. With this configuration, we also get the potential for enormous electric generation with a flywheel at the drive-stage which also serves as a gyro-stabilizer. http://rexresearch.com/schaeffe/schaeffe.htm

    Built of steel, I'm needing around 3,000lbs of vehicle weight. I don't mind this, provided the efficiency of the drive-trane, since it is inherently a -displacement- motor arrangement.
  18. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Back again

    Hi everyone,

    I was what they call "out of station" for a few days.
    On Monday afternoon CET will the press release be online, due to stringent clauses in the agreement we signed, # 46.
    Let's say 5PM,
    CU all
  19. MaxResolution

    MaxResolution Senior Member

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    Not to be up-staged by football!

    Let me see, how's this for a binding contract caluse:

    "Under no circumstance shall the parties release any controversial new designs in the marketplace BEFORE the Superboul."

    ...Whew, for a minute I was afraid this realese would fall beneath the fold. You never know, Prince may just show his breasts LIVE on TV, and with all the gossip, the weekend and such, the world may never know.

    Salut! Here's to your Christening Toast!

    -Cheers, ...Mates, now pass the **** Doritos.

    :eek:
  20. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Official release

    We can now officially announce the signature of our 46th licence agreement for the compressed-air technology with the Tata Group of India.
    Tata has acquired the exclusive rights and licence to manufacture and market the full range of applications within the Indian territory.

    Before all this contract brings a global recognition of the MDI technology!

    Also go to www.mdi.lu and/or www. and http://www.tatamotors.com