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After 30K NM in new Selene55, considering a Marlow65/70

Discussion in 'Marlow Yacht' started by Mike Curreri, May 24, 2015.

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  1. Mike Curreri

    Mike Curreri New Member

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    We are considering moving to a Marlow brokeraged boat for added volume, added speed potential and reduced draft. But, have never been on board one. Though they look good on paper (electron display), would like to discuss experience of current and past owners. Either post hear, or preferably, contact me at [email deleted]. Thanks.

    Mike Curreri
    M/V Blue Grotto (Selene 5578)
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2015
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    No, no, no. If you're use to the quality and the rough water capabilities of a Selene, you'll be disappointed. You do need to read the site rules, no posting of emails for your protection. Unless you want to be on every spam list in the world.

    Back to the boats. If you're looking to step up from a Selene, then something like a Fleming would be more in line or a larger Selene. Or a Nordhavn. Where do you cruise mostly, in what type waters? I'm guessing a good bit off shore and probably trips to the Bahamas, maybe Caribbean? If it's just ICW then the Marlow is more acceptable.

    You're also talking about a significant change from a full displacement to a semi-displacement boat.
  3. Mike Curreri

    Mike Curreri New Member

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    Thanks for the prompt reply. You don't say how you are familiar with Marlows. Have you owned/ cruised on one?

    The bullet-proof seaworthiness of the 110,000 lb. Selene with KeyPower 9 sq. ft. stabilizer paddles and ocean crossing capability is not what we are looking for to meet our needs in the next 10 years of cruising. We would like to reduce our need for off-shore overnights; and we are certain that we will be less willing to go out in the 8-10 footers that we formerly encountered. We'll wait them out, but will still head to the Bahamas, New England, the west coast of FL, the ICW, near-shore East Coast and travels between the Mid-Atlantic states and our hailing port of Key West.

    Your answer, however, implies a degradation in quality of components or workmanship. Is that the findings of owners? It would not seem likely based on the paper descriptions and pricing. But we will go to the Marlow brokerage in a few weeks and see for ourselves.

    Thanks, again.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, the information you get at the Marlow brokerage will not exactly be unbiased.

    But then I'm not either. We started looking at Marlow in our very first stages of looking at boats based on moving to the coast. We loved the layouts. We were impressed by their descriptions. We loved the designs of the 57-61's and thought the 97 had a great design. Well, the 97 turned out to be a bit nightmarish. As to the 57-61's more mixed reviews and opinions.

    We were not impressed by many of the issues on new boat deliveries, by lawsuits, and when we talked to captains and owners we were not impressed with what they said about their rides and handling of rough water, although we've not actually experienced it. What we found was two fold. First, some quality issues with manufacturing. Second, and perhaps more applicable if looking at used boats where we're assuming a sea trial and thorough survey by independent surveyors, just not as good at handling rough conditions.

    To take this a step further. from what we've learned, Grand Banks will handle rough conditions better than an equivalent Marlow. The Marlow will be faster and out perform in calm water. I use that comparison because Marlow really morphed from Grand Banks, as that is where David Marlow's experience was and his desire to compete.

    You're use to a boat that handles 8-10' well. Most users of Marlows in the size range you're looking at tend to limit themselves to 3-4' and they're not likely to be comfortable in 5-6'. If you like to cruise inside then the lesser draft would be a great positive and the sea handling not important. However, if you like to cruise outside, you will find yourself facing more "stay put" days. Again, nothing wrong with that. Just a big change from your Selene.

    I'd definitely recommend doing your sea trial in rough conditions. Any boat rides well in 1' (yes we had 1' on our trip to the Bahamas this time until we got close and it became 2-3').

    One last comment and this is also emphasis on sea trial and survey. Marlows are constantly changing within the same model. For better or worse. Just don't assume all of an identical model will perform exactly the same. Call it "Mad Scientist." David Marlow is driven toward a good but elusive goal of best performing, most efficient. He is never satisfied. So, he fine tunes or tinkers. Always striving to reduce weight. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes not as well. Often it improves in one area and takes away in another. But important to the buyer is not to assume that all 57's or all 61's are the same. For instance, both those models are now gone. The new 58 is designed to have more speed and range than the 57. The new 62 is designed to have 200 more gallons of fuel, 4" less draft, 5% more speed and 10% better fuel economy than the 61. Those are all worthy goals, but they generally come with some sacrifice in some area. Now often changes have been made within the same model number. But if he sees a way to improve a model then the next boat built will have that change.

    Personally, if I were looking for the Marlow attributes, I'd lean toward Grand Banks. And don't think I'm pushing Grand Banks as a company because I remain very concerned about their future, but then I just reviewed their quarterly financials.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I recently ran a new 57' and with 3-4' off of the stern 1/4 it was downright scary. It had wesmar digital stabilizers and we ran at cruise which was anywhere from 14-17.5 knots depending if it was going up or down a wave. We took one wave 4' on the beam and almost flew off of the flybridge.....I would never want one. Also if you're docked or anchored and have 8-12" wakes off of the stern, it SLAMS into the integral swim platform and the whole boat shudders and spray shoots all over the cockpit area.
  6. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    I've run and delivered several of the larger Marlows. One I took from West End in the Bahamas non-stop to Virginia. We were in up to real 10 + foot seas off the forward quarter at times and the boat handled it pretty well. We never felt unsafe. They are/were built like a tank.

    They are low with not a lot of weight high up in most cases. So I found them to be good sea boats and very stabile at anchor.

    I've run as well as owned Grand Banks off and on for over 30 years and I would say a Marlow is a much better sea boat.

    But that said, they are the wettest boat I have ever run. And of course they can have other issues as well.

    I'd be happy to talk to you about them off the board.

    Full disclosed, I've know and worked for David Marlow off and on for over 30 years as well.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    The disclosure is much appreciated as well as the information. You mention having run the larger boats a lot. Having no first hand knowledge on one, it's been my impression that the best of the breed were the larger ones, except for the largest, the 97. The 76 Voyager is probably the battle ship of their offerings. Have you found that to be the case?

    I think of the 57's, etc. as loop boats primarily and designed for that type cruising.

    With the all new line, I don't know what to make out of anything. (not all new but mostly). I'm sure David's thoughts are "constantly improving." Others might say, "owner always tinkering and can't leave well enough alone." I do think it's fair to say that the constant changes do add some degree of risk. Now some models more effected than others. Again, I'm sure his thoughts are that he's correcting any issue he finds for the next boat. I've said before from a design standpoint, David is a bit of genius and a bit of mad scientist.

    Other than the 97E, which we'll dismiss for this discussion, and the 76, every other model is new in it's present incarnation isn't it? By new I mean introduced within the past two years.

    Now in buying a used boat much of this discussion becomes moot. Go for a sea trial but make sure you find some rough conditions. Then get it surveyed. At that point you know the boat you're getting and all the other issues don't really matter.

    As to Grand Banks, like many brands, I think you're talking many different Grand Banks as you're talking about different periods of development. You go from the classic single engines to the large Aleutians of today to Eastbay. I think more and more it's become difficult to know what they are, especially with Palm Beach now not just involved but their previous owner running things. Regardless they're not selling many boats and they're losing money. Now Marlow has always been low volume, but they don't have the infrastructure or facilities to support than GB does.
  8. Spray

    Spray New Member

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    We owned a Marlow 70E for several years and thought it was a great boat. Marlow's are wet boats, but we found ours to be very sea worthy and safe. We looked at Flemming's and almost purchased and Grand Banks. Both the flemming and Grandbanks are much slower then the marlow's fitted with C-18's. We cruised at 20-22 kts and topped out at 26kts. Spent last winter in lower exumas and traveled from soflo to the northeast for two summers with no issues for us at all.
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    You said "owned". Do you have a boat now? Just interested in what a Marlow owner would move to next.

    It's definitely faster than the other two, although Grand Banks comes very close. But David Marlow is very much into getting the most speed he can from a particular design.
  10. Spray

    Spray New Member

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    Sabre 54. We loved the Marlow just could not continue to justify the expense that comes with running a boat like that at speeds we like to travel. Can cruise at 30 kts with sabre for a fraction of cost. looking forward to picking her up in Maine soon.
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    With flybridge or express? Well, you can't cruise 30 knots on the Marlow period. You share our desire to go faster. Hope the IPS (assuming that's what it has) provides you great service. 36 knots WOT I see but only 55 gph at 30 knots. That's good for a 54' boat.
  12. Spray

    Spray New Member

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    Flybridge. Love the lines of the express, but just couldn't give up the flybridge. Will be our first boat with pods. It has volvos. Also our first with a gyro. Looking forward to seeing both in action some more. Seems as though the efficiency can't be beat with a conventional hull that's designed for pods. Here she is coming out of the shed. image.jpg
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I couldn't give up a flybridge on a boat I owned for cruising long distances and spending a lot of time on either. When it's just the two of us heading somewhere, an express is fine. But not beyond that.
  14. Mike Curreri

    Mike Curreri New Member

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    By the way, we DID purchase the Marlow 70E. She rides exceedingly well in a variety of sea states; and when not underway, she is a superb place to live and entertain. Good move!
  15. amuskett

    amuskett New Member

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    Could you elaborate on the differences between your Selene and the Marlow? Would you have been as comfortable/secure on your current Marlow as you were on the Selene for the previous 30K miles? For a "Great U" type of trip, including the Caribbean, would you have done that in the Marlow? How often are you using the greater speed capability? Is that draft a significant advantage?
  16. Cpt. Chazza

    Cpt. Chazza New Member

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    Has Marlow trashed it's brand value buy buying and now marketing the "Marlow Mainship" and the "Marlow Hunter?" And now that David is distracted by these two beauties will he have any time to perfect his new line of "real" Marlows? Or, will a Marlow Bayliner" be next? I wonder what that will do to the resale value of Marlows down the road?

    Was seriously considering a Marlow and was intrigued by David's reputation as a perfectionist, but now I think I'll slow down and look at Fleming and Krogen. The ownership there seems more focused on their core products.

    I owned a Saberline 36 for 5 years and can't say enough about their service and support. A truly class act. Selena sounds very interesting, will have to look into that as well.

    Thanks for all the great in
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I ran a 2014 56' Marlow in a 3-5' beam sea off of the stern 1/4 and it had wesmar digital stabilizers. The boat was far from perfect and the ride was down right scary. I was at it's 16 knot cruise and I swear it rode on the port hull side several times.
  18. Mike Curreri

    Mike Curreri New Member

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    The Marlow 70E is everything we had hoped for and much more. The decreased draft, expansive living space and extra speed are all what we sought. As I noted above, the rumors of an especially wet ride were not consistent with our experience. The quality has greatly exceeded our expectations, as have two other issues. The management and ownership of the company could not be more engaged and helpful in ensuring our happiness with the boat. You would think that we purchased a brand new boat from them (ours is neither). Really impressive. The other issue is the quality of the ride in choppy water. It could not be better. Even at only 11 knots or so, it is quite a smooth ride. Moreover, we have been in seas as great as seven feet and have been impressed, so far, with the quality of the ride at every sea state. Of course, we are not usually underway. So, the living arrangements of such a voluminous boat remains our most often recognized advantage. We are very happy with the value for the additional money spent.

    Mike
  19. amuskett

    amuskett New Member

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    Mike is there anything that your Selene could do that your Marlow can't?
  20. Mike Curreri

    Mike Curreri New Member

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    It is not so much about "can" or "can't". Rather a matter of degree.

    The Selene is much better at long stays on the hook without the generator running. The Selene has 1200 amp-hours of Lifeline batteries in just one of its five banks. Boats the size of the Marlow run generators whenever underway or at anchor.

    The Selene is also better suited for very long distance cruising (1000 NM or more). This is because of both design issues (four water tight compartments, multiple heavy weather WTDs, foredeck design, etc) and fuel consumption issues.

    Mike