Ady Gil (Earthrace) Sunk By Japanese Whalers

I have no idea what legal action can even be taken. What court would anyone pursue the charges in? Who has jurisdiction? Normally charges on the open sea are pursued under one of the flag states being represented. Here we have a Japanese Flag and a Pirate Flag (I don't recall ever seeing any Sea Sheppard vessel flying an Australian Flag. The only official flag I have seen on one of their vessels was Belize on Whales Forever). The "attempted murder" charge can just as easily be applied to Sea Sheppard, and if it was to be dealt with under US law, there can even be RICO attached to it. In the end of it in a court, the Japanese can show what they were doing is legal and that they were under attack by Ady Gil and Sea Sheppard Foundation and were acting in self defense. This whole episode would not have occurred had they not been trying to disable the Japanese ship, and disabling a ship in the Southern Ocean can easily have fatal consequences.

Bottom line, if you want to play the pirate game, you have to play by pirate rules, and there is no court in pirate rules.
When you pick a fight and lose, you can't go running to the principal and whine "He beat me up". Besides that, it makes them look like whiny pussies....

Give it a break Henning. You don't do drama or irony well and surely somewhere in your encyclopedic knowledge of all things ad nauseum you must have some clue as to why that statement falls flat on its face.

The Sea Shepard vessels are registered like any other vessel floating around out there. That pirate flag doesn't mean any more than a a martini flag flying above a weekend boater.

OK, that's a bit of hyperbole. They're simply saying that they'll attack them on yet another front, tying them up in courts. Remember, anybody can be sued for anything and with the world's sensitivity to whaling they could easily win judgements regardless of the laws. The end result of appeals is irrelevant. When your profits go to paying lawyers and repairing you ships whaling becomes less attractive.

Well, where are they flagged? I don't know, as I said, the only state flag I have seen on SS vessel was Belize. Law also says you have to be flying your flag when in sight of other vessels. That's why I am wondering what jurisdiction they would go for to press charges. I heard something about New Zealand, is that where the Ady Gil's skipper is from? I can't see Australia pursuing this anywhere but the media, and I can't see them doing that too hard either. The game has not changed in years on that end. The Japanese say "Be quiet or we boycott Japanese Tourism in Australia" and the Aussies say "Yes sir". The Australian Govt is much more in fear of losing the Japanese tourism than they are of their own people who are basically powerless to do anything besides complain.

According to the Sea Shepherd web site one of their boats is flaged Canadian. Also, given the amount of websapce that is dedicated to their cause and exploits there's a lot of pressure on the Japanese combined with: "The 2007-2008 Operation Migaloo campaign was very successful and the whalers only got about ½ their quota, due to the Steve Irwin's intervention" (per SS home page). Given the current Japanese economic situation they're fightig a battle that will hurt them on many fronts. The sooner they give it up the better for themselves.

if they had a ''quota'' doesn't that tell you they were legal in their whaling effort ????

They are legal under the research loophole. That doesn't mean it's right. Again, the research they're doing is to determine how much money can be made. I'll give the whalers no sympathy.

Yeah, and I have no issues with that, the only way that this will ever be effective for the whales is when the Japanese decide internally that their culture no longer wants to honor their "traditions". Mind you, this has required nuclear weapons in the past. I really don't have any issues with their (Sea Sheppard's) methods, my issue is with seeking criminal charges against the captain he picked a fight with, plus he is lying about the circumstances of the actual collision. The whatever Maru was setting up for a close water cannon pass, and the Ady Gil throttled up the last bit and hit it. If you're going out there looking for a fight, you can't whine when you get clocked, and then when you lean into a punch and call foul and seek criminal charges against an event of your own doing, you kinda step over the line with me and a lot of people. It takes you from Activist to A** in my view. What they are doing IS NOT LEGAL. It is against the law to interfere with the safe navigation of another vessel, and this occurrence did not happen in a vacuum, They had been working for quite a while trying to disable the Japanese ship. When you are in the process of breaking the law, say a mugging, you can't run to the police and complain that the guy you were mugging broke your arm taking your gun away, especially when you were stupid enough to stick the gun in his ribs. If he pursues the attempted murder thing, it will cost Sea Sheppard support and credibility.

Of course you can complain. Every watch basketball or (US) football? It's called drawing a foul. Of course sometimes you draw broken bones with it, but any way it turns out you dance and scream foul. It's a game, and one that Sea Shepherd does well. Everybody knows it and sees it on their show. It's how they got their supporters in the first place.

in your mind and others, it is not right....some people have no opinion,and some people don't care if they kill whales....this thread has gone from a discussion about a collision at sea to debate about whaling.....

Actually, it never really was about a collision. It's about tactics, and consequently whaling. The collision just got it on the boards and broadcasts. You can't mention any aspect of the Sea Shepherd program without discussing tactics and whaling.

It's the debate about whaling that is the underlying cause of this collision.

It's like talking about those airliners crashing into the World Trade Center and avoiding any discussion as to why that happened. I guess you would just say "bad piloting" and lacking any interest or curiosity beyond that, consider the subject closed...

Yep, yell and scream foul all you want, but you ever see a basketball or football player insist the DA prosecute battery charges? That's the difference I'm talking about. Like I said, I have no issue with the showmanship aspects, it's when they started seeking to imprison people when it's they that are breaking the law and creating the situation, that's entrapment and I refuse to support that kind of abuse. Paul has always claimed they operate as a pirate organization, when you do that, you can't seek refuge in the law. The twit driving the Ady Gil is just a whiny poser. He was like a chihuahua nipping at the neck of a pit bull and got a bite taken out of him. Whether he throttled into the collision on purpose or out of panic isn't really relevant because he put himself there in the progress of a criminal action. Either way, his actions caused the loss of his vessel and endangered his crew. If he holds a license, he should lose it.

Neither will I, but I still will require fair play. If they want to go on a physical attack, then defending ones self becomes fair play. The Maru Capt could have drove right over the cabin and killed the crew. At the end before the collision he turned to port and the Ady Gill throttled into the collision. As I said in the beginning of this thread, I think he did a good job not killing them.

You miss the point. He has you talking about him. Success! As for pulling a license you've got he said/he said with a ton of pressure coming from worldwide sympathies. And remember, the world can't even get a handle on real piracy from Somalia. Bottom line, he has people talking. Success!

Talking isn't the only thing though. It's attention, yes it is, however, you can vary the quality of that attention. If all that "talk" loses one support, and even more important, funding, that talk can be a net loss. Look at PETA for an example of how it can go not so good.

I agree there is a true separation between fish and whales, they are truly iconic creatures. Yet, it is not an act of piracy that is going to halt any further hunting. I dont know why authorities let these "pirates" come into port. I believe they were dutch flagged if i am not mistaken. Given their foul intent, authorities should halt their departure under past precident of the master of the vessels actions.

That won't happen either, it's political suicide especially in Aus & N.Z., it's a very popular cause. That's why states should be left out of it, and that's why Paul doesn't fly a State flag when they are in confrontational operations, he strikes his version of the Jolly Roger. Once they get states involved though, then the Japanese have cause to put economic pressure on the states that host them in Southern Ocean ports, and those states rely on Japanese tourism for economic health. Paul needs to reign in his dog before he causes problems for the states that provide him shelter. This issue will not be solved at the state level anyway. It can only be cured at the cultural level.

Your first sentence says it all. If he reigned in his dogs he would be Greenpeace. Do you see 14 pages of YF or a cable show dedicated to them? He makes news. He doesn't play fair, but using the research loophole to slaughter whales for profit isn't exactly playing fair either. The Japanese are applying every bit of economic and political pressure they can muster to stop him. How's that working out? Oh yeah, "it's political suicide especially in Aus & N.Z., it's a very popular cause".

Reading your posts is like playing "Whack-a-Mole" it's hard to keep up with the BS, it is so wide ranging.

How can an Admiral of the Ocean Seas and First Born Son of Magellan such as yourself come up with this stuff? Do you post this with a straight face?

I suggest that along with a few other maritime traditions, practices, laws, and conventions, you do some research on the flag thing.

And just to save space, you really ought to go back and tell that inquisitive 100 ton tugboat captain that you are equally clueless about the widely varying requirements for safe manning certificates among the flag states that offer a yacht registry.

Do us all a favor, Henning, don't feel that you have to make up an answer for something you don't know. If you have some pathological need to post, then please try to provide a link or a suggestion of where to look for the information. Or better yet, just step away from the keyboard for a while and see what happens.