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A rant on fresh water pump location....

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Pascal, Aug 23, 2017.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I just don't understand why so many builders insist on locating the fresh water pumps and related stuff in hot engine rooms!

    Do they enjoy brushing their teeth with warm to hot water?

    I understand one issue could be noise but when installing pumps like the headhunter Mach 5 which is very quiet, that's a moot point

    Moreover the Mach 5 is sensitive to heat so having it sitting into a 120 F engine room makes no sense whatsoever

    Hatteras, sea ray, Tiara, lazzara, Johnson and more all do it or have done it

    Don't these designers and builders use their boats ??
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Usually not. Some also put the pumps above the tanks so they are not self priming if you empty the tank...
  3. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    My tanks are located outside the engine room, so after the initial warm water, it runs cool. Its convenient to have equipment located in the ER for accessibility?
  4. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    I JUST finished having a Mach 5 pump installed on FRP angle stock brackets along with a dual in-line cartridge filters in the machinery space yesterday because it was convenient with the aft fresh water tank plumbing suction and discharge lines . It was Plumbed in with schedule 80 PVC and PEX w/ unions for a quick change out if needed. Had I known that the Head Hunter Mach 5 pump was susceptible to heat problems I would have considered an alternative location like in the lazz. Its been a while since I've had a Mach 5 as the last few vessels I've been involved with we've installed German SPECK pumps but in the past I've had many Mach 5's and didn't know that they had a heat issue? What's going on with them now that they have issues in the machinery space? BTW. pressure gauge inverted was a temp situation until the plumbing was strapped to the White ACP with stainless cushion clamps.

    I posted a thumb nail image but you have to click on it for the whole photo. I hope it isn't larger than the rules for posting pics requirement.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The Mach 5 manual states max ambient temp is 120 F. Here in so Fl in the summer time it s not uncommon for the ER to reach 120F after a run at cruise by the time you get to the dock at idle.

    I often get errors on the Mach 5 when the ER is hot
  6. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Well, that's good information to know. My saving grace may be the air plenum outlet in the overhead thats above and inboard by a foot or so .
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Noise, if it springs a leak, etc. a lot of manufacturers 'put them there. It just is what it is.
  8. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    The thing about the Mach 5 liquid cooled pump is from a thermodynamic perspective, , it adds 3.412 BTU's of heat to the water for every watt the motor consumes. Volts x amps = watts, if you know those two numbers.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    A 72 Hat we work on has two of them in the stb E R. About 2.5 feet away from the port forward C32 exhaust manifold.
    It gets hot in there despite the roaring E R blowers.
    So far, the pumps pass warm water for a few seconds but do keep pumping. FM...
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It's usually more than a few seconds as t h pipes are also hot and usually there is a pressure accumulator too.p as well as filters. It all adds to 10, 15 gallons.

    Part of my 53 hatt refit, I have built a pump closet behind the stbd ER. For those familiar with these boats I have combined the guest stateroom and master in one larger master suite with the old heads and companionway merged into a large head. This allowed me to set aside a 2'x3' space where I have installed the water pumps, filters, head pump, jacuzzi pump and eventually the watermaker.
  11. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    I had an older 57' Jim Smith that had a mechanical room below the galley where all the pumps, a/c's, chargers, and etc. were located. The mechanical room was not hot even though there was no door on the opening to the ER. Also, there were only engines in the ER (imagine that!)and roomy with good access around the engines. Another feature was large hatches over the engines which could easily be remove to give great access for engine maintenance. Another plus was the double salon doors which would allow easy engine removal if needed. The generator was in the lazerette. It was a good setup and often wonder why more builders did not copy the design.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Why on earth did you get rid of that boat for a hatteras? What speed did it cruise at and wot? 8v92's?
  13. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Capt J, I have ask myself that same question many times. It was repowered the 80's with older 12cyl Mans 700 hp and cruised 25kt @1800 with 1/2 fuel and about 30kt wot@2350. The only problem was the accommodations were tight below. Should have remodeled that Gal. The setup was the way all boats should be designed for maintenance. I could reach everything in the bilges. It also had a cockpit deck fill for the fuel tank so you could stick the tank to verify fuel. When you add up all the design features it had everything you would want except sleeping accommodations if building a boat....Sellers Remorse. Sold the Hatt a year ago and been looking at Pilothouses. Liked the 50 Hat too except very tight ER with 3412's. Sounds like Pascal made a mechanical room for some equipment on his Hatt. Well worth the effort to relocate equipment to a separate space out of the ER if keeping a boat long term, if the space is available.
  14. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Mechanical pump rooms, engine patches, wow, those old school builders knew a thing or two. Funny how some things get lost in generations.
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It s when the marketing department start designing boats... every inch is squeezed out of the engine room and used for staterooms. Too bad if it takes 4 hours to change an impeller because these missing 6" transferred to the master head will impress the buyers wife
  16. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    It is all about purdy...if my last boat had a 3412 that needed to come out...would have been a major operation.
  17. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Read about all that work you have scheduled for your Hatt. Perfect time to move stuff where you want it.
  18. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Yes, I have lived that. Especially when they brought the auto industry into ours. It is all about features and design, access be damned.
  19. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Math is a little off there wdrzal ...

    If that water cooled pump were operating on 115V at its maximum pressure of 50 psig and moving 8 gpm of fresh water, and the motor were somewhere around 80 percent efficient, it would add only 853 BTUs per hour. Just enough to heat that 8 gallons of water less than 2 degrees F, and then only if the pump were heat soaked already.
  20. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    Since Energy "can't be created or destroyed" as we understand mechanical & electrical engineering, All the electrical energy is transformed into work (what the motor does ) and heat. Every watt needs accounted for. I didn't calculate water flow ,head pressure or temperature rise since I have no numbers for those variables.

    What is the amp draw @ 115 volts ??? or just the wattage used per hour.
    Motor inefficiency (as related to heat output) doesn't matter when your measuring the power the pump is consuming directly.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017