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53' Feadship

Discussion in 'Feadship Yacht' started by cgoodwin, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Joints

    Splining shouldn't be a problem, after all that's how hull seams are treated without problems. I also don't think filling with Sikaflex will look terreible and that's what weve done on Ticky and it looks fine. I'd do one or the other and then protect with a poly varnish.
  2. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    David,

    Do you have any photos you would share of a joint repaired with Sikaflex? Which Sikaflex did you use?

    The reason I am concerned with splinging is that in other areas where small openings were filled with Varnish, the varnish was pushed out of the joint in the summer when the teak expanded. Had a hard spline been in this juncture, I would imagine it would have caused seperation at another location...

    chris
  3. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    On another note, I caulked the teak decks in one area with Sikaflex 291 and in the others with Teak Deck Systems. The TDS has failed in several places and had to be repaired, the area caulked with 291 has never failed. And it is 1/2 the cost....
  4. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Seams

    Chris
    I'm going to see the boat on Thursday and I'll take some pics of the joints . I'll also find out which Sikaflex was used
    Best
    D
  5. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    Phart,

    I did a quick search on the internet and was not able to find any images of this config, nor of the 6-71 Quad Six, but did find several references to them.

    "Since inline engines of more than 6 cylinders tend to have substantial technical problems, and since GM was not to perfect V-block engine technology for another decade, they took two divergent approaches to achieving higher horsepower. One was to couple together multiple 6-71 engines in twin (side-by-side), tandem (fore-and-aft) and the incredible Quad (four 6-71s all driving a single shaft). While these did produce high horsepower and even added some redundancy, they were mechanically complex and relatively expensive."

    Detroit Diesel 110 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And this image http://www.tugboatenthusiastsociety.org/Images/Photos-Machinery/DD-LVRR-500PIX.jpg

    Showing: A pair of Detroit Diesel 71s are shown in the engine room of a Lehigh Valley Railroad tug at Jakobson Shipyard in the late 1940s. The electrical switchboard is aft of the two engines behind the access ladder to the main deck. Photo from a Cleveland Diesel Engine Division press package.

    Tugboat Enthusiasts Society

    If you know of any photos of the Quad Six set-up used in fireboats, drilling rigs and Landing Craft, I would live to see those, must have been interesting.
  6. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    This last summer I completed half an interesting project.

    Brigand was fitted with a rub rail down each side from stern to about 5' from the bow. The rail is teak, perhaps 6" wide, 5" at its base and 2" at the outside edge. The top surface is nearly flat to the horizontal, the bottom slopes downward. The outer face was fitted with a stainless cap, could be nickle plated bronze, not sure.

    This feature was held to the side with a bolt every 4' from the inside of the boat and under the stainless cap could be found a recess where the nut was threaded on. Then every 6" there was a wood screw set from inside the hull and fixed into the rail. I have no idea how this was originally bedded, but know from historical photos that it was always hull color.

    Over the years the paint gave way both at the joint to the hull and under the stainless, water got in and began corroding the bolts. Rust and Teak are not friendly and as the rust does it's thing it turns the surrounding teak into powder. Brigand had several rust streaks leaking from cracks in the paint at the juncture of the rub rail and the hull.

    I pulled the stainless and dug out what appeared to be dolphinite from the fastener plugs, sanded the entire rail and found numerous points of serious rot. The rot was removed with a grinder. I then used a Fein tool to cut a separation where the teak met the hull top and bottom and dug into this area with a hacksaw blade, most of it was fine but in some areas I found rust. I taped the bottom joint and flooded the gap with POR-15 rust encapsulating paint end to end.

    I took a small piece of teak and drilled a 1/2" hole 3/4 of the way through its 5" depth and filled it with CPES until it would take no more, this was about 3 initial fillings and another 3 fillings over as many days. I let it sit for two days and cut it in half with a band saw. I found that the CPES had soaked 1.5" in all directions out from the hole.

    The sanded rail was then drilled every 3" for its entire length and every hole filled in the same manner. After allowing 3 days to dry I plugged the holes with teak plugs soaked in epoxy and liberally coated the entire rail in two more coats of CPES and allowed it to dry. Rotted sections were repaired with dutchmans. Special attention was paid to areas around the main fastening bolts. The recess points for the bolts were filled with sikaflex adjacent to the nut, then capped two days later with thickened epoxy.

    At this point the entire teak rub rail was essentially an epoxy composit with the teak taking the place of glass fiber. My test piece was left to rest in a jar of water for the two weeks the project took, then cut again to reveal no moisture at all.

    The hull and rail were faired and given two coats of epoxy primer, followed by three coats of epoxy top coat. The groove at the juncture between the hull and the rail was then filleted with 3M 4000UV.

    The boat has been uncovered all winter in Seattle, freezing winter, snow, hail, and enough rain to cause serious flooding and landslides. The rail is pristine, not a single rust or paint bubble.

    Now its time to do the other side.....
  7. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  8. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Rubrail on Tiky

    The rubrail on TIKY is basically an L shipped flange approx 2" x 2" (with horizontal face at top and vertical edge point ing down to water) spot welded along the hull with a polished 2" x 0.25" s/s half-round strip bolted (bolts have
    flush counter-sunk heads) to the flange every 4".
  9. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    I thought to replace it with steel and weld it, but the hull would not allow it, at the rear the hull slopes in at the top (tumble home) by midships she is nearly vertical and flares out at the bow. Some one put some real thought into making this piece. I considered replacing it with welded half round, but that was another issue as it would not look original and looks very work-boat not Yacht. I'll see if I can upload some images...
  10. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    Prep



    drilled



    finished

    Attached Files:

  11. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Rubbing strake

    My hull has just the same compound curves as Brigand but with even more flair at the bow and to make matters more complicated a rounded "cruiser" stern, so the issues are just the same. The problem with an unprotected timber strake will become apparent the first time you dock or someone comes alongside. We polished the s/s half round and it looks very smart- not at all work-boat and quite the opposite in fact. I strongly recommend you fit it to your teak strake...you won't regret it.
  12. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    Mine is fitted with a stainless trim, maybe 3/16 thick and the width of the rub rail. I ran out of time to put it back but it will be going back on as soon as this rain stops... Would love to see some photos of your project...
  13. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Brigand and Feadship Tiky

    Hiya
    There is loads of stuff and many photos about the rebuild of Tiky on Yacht Forums ..do a search on vintage feadship Tiky (or under her previous name Alto Volante). Or send me your email and I'll send pics direct to you. regards david
  14. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    Beautiful work!!!!!!!!

    Do you have any photos of the repairs where the teak opened up???
  15. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    tiky - superstrutcure seams

    this is the only photo I have..

    Attached Files:

  16. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    The similarity in the construction of our boats is remarkable. There, I remarked on it. It would also appear that the same Burmese teak was used on both of our vessels...
  17. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Vintage feadship

    Indeed. The sides of Tiky's superstructure are made of teak boards , the lower ones being 16" wide and 25ft long but with sections cut out for the window apertures .

    Incidentally, we've also had a few joins open up - nothing major and not enough to caulk or spline but annoying nevertheless. The teak brightwork already has 6- 8 coats of Epifanes varnish but we have now over-coated with 6 thinned coats of Coelan which not only seals the openings and will prevent leaks but gives a really amazing depth to the brightwork.

    We've also fitted electric motors to the PH aft windows using a low-tech pulley system which works amazingly

    Attached Files:

  18. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    Brigand's construction is exactly the same. In one place on the port side near the top of the window two of the planks have separated about 1 - 2mm, it is interesting to note that these planks are not splined together at all but butt joined with only a dowel every .5m, not the best construction method but they were steel workers, not cabinet makers. The construction of the doors was equally poor with the central panel fitted in a rabbit top and bottom solidly rather than the floating panel method accepted in cabinet and door making since the 15th century.

    Have you noticed that the radius corners of the windows was made by inserting rounded triangles of wood into the square frame? It appears that they were attempting to mimic the style of the Chriscrafts of the era, but again the woodwork was sub par.

    What is Coelan?
  19. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Coelan

    Coelan is a German made polyurethane coating that I've used on my handrails. Has a wonderful deep gloss finish and Classic Boat Magazine test reports suggest it has a lifespan of at least 10 years in Mediterranean conditions. I have referred to it in several posts on yachtforums
  20. cgoodwin

    cgoodwin Member

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    It appears that Coelan is a polyurethane clear coat much like Awlcraft which has in recent years become quite popular here in the Pacific northwest. I did several years ago use Epifanes PP with is their Polyurethane. I had both success and failure with it. On the lazerette teak grates I applied 3 coats of CPES followed by three coats of Epifanes PP. These grates look today just as they did in 2008. I used the same treatment on the transom and it lasted very well until this year, I first noticed darkening in spots and in a short time the tell tale lighter splotches of lifting varnish. This summer I will strip the transom completely and recoat it.

    I have spoken to several people here who use Awlcraft over varnish and they seem quite happy but only time will tell, my biggest concern is in the ability to patch it when repairs are required and the difficulty involved in removing it. I have repaired Awlgrip which is a Linear Polyurethane and it fogs badly where the repair was made making it, in my opinion, useless for application over varnish. I am told that the straight polyurethane does not ahve this issue.

    Either way, if a crack opens and water enters, the coatings will lift. Cracks and water are inevitable when dealing with wood in a marine environment. The surface can be below freezing in the winter and in excess of 80C in direct sunlight and wood expands and contracts. Sooner or later something is going to open enough to allow water in. My concern is how difficult it will be to repair when this happens...

    I am sure this is why you see so many photos of older beautiful Feadships with the houses painted white. There are few of us who are willing to do what is required to operate a floating jewelry box, half ship, half piano...