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52 Express with Cat power wanted?

Discussion in 'Cabo Yacht' started by Punisherzx12r, Jan 29, 2021.

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  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    According to who? I’ve never heard of such a thing.
  2. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    I was told that by several people and one 45 express I looked at was advertised as "2000 hour just completed". It had all the heads replaced with reman and reman turbos.
    It had also just got some really expensive fuel pump work. You just don't see 10,000 dollar fuel pumps in the cat world.

    Full disclosure...I know nothing of the CR MAN.

    Is the newer CR cheaper to maintain?
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, and I’ve been around a lot of non common rail mans and have never heard of replacing the heads.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Told by several people and advertised. You use hearsay from CAT fans and we post official maintenance schedules.

    MAN was a leader in the development of common rail. I have no experience with their old engines but we've maintained now 10 MAN CR Engines, all built between 2012 and 2016, 8 in Riva's, 2 in a Sunseeker. Our maintenance costs have been very low but then we're very diligent with preventive maintenance.

    Now you show me engines from any brand that have been abused and neglected and I'll show you problems. I'll put MAN against CAT any day. We have life long CAT fans on our staff who have come over to praising MAN's.

    At this point as you keep harping and keep tossing our innuendo, I'm beginning to really wonder about the purpose of your posts. You've asked the questions and been answered but you keep referring back to things you've heard or been told and you cite no reliable sources at all.
  5. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    Easy their killer...no need for the attitude at the end. My ears are open and willing to listen
  6. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    I come from the excavating world...I know caterpillar but acknowledge that this particular boat performs better with the MAN....just trying to learn as much as possible before spending a great deal of money.
  7. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    Call the dealer in your area of operation. Also the distributor in Texas was very helpful with me when I was first considering purchasing a boat with MANs. I apologize that I can’t think of the name. It is hard for me to think of another engine brand that has suffered from more misinformation than MAN. Some of it was self inflicted years ago when they didn’t respond well to warranty claims when they had piston problems and then there was a run of bad Bosch injectors. But that is about 20 years ago yet the stigma still exists. My take on there recommended maintenance schedule is that it ultimately saves money by catching things early before they reek havoc. I had 15 or so years old fuel injector pumps. My mechanic said my decision but they were getting close to the age where they would benefit from being gone through. So I could have saved $16,000 and kept the fuel pumps to failure which would have sent metal through the fuel system. In addition by servicing the fuel pumps prior to failure I instead paid $8000 per fuel pump instead of a possible $16,000 per fuel pump if they had been run to failure. Instead I had them gone over and hopefully avoided a fuel pump failure which would most likely happen while on vacation/in the Bahamas. Not why I go boating. All of this being said. You appear to be from MD and I don’t know who the Man dealer is up there. If no good MAN dealer then maybe keep your search up for a cat powered boat.
  8. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    My slip neighbor has had MAN powered boats and has a good mechanic that can come to us...so it probably isn't a deal breaker.

    Do you guys know much about the CR version? I would assume it has a high pressure pump with one line to all thr injectors...then the injector just provides open and close. Whereas cat provides the final injection pressure with the injector itself. I would think the CR MAN would have a cheaper pump than the older motors and then somewhat expensive injectors.
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Shore Power Solutions in Chester is likely his nearest MAN service provider.

    And my reason for getting upset is that you have kept repeating false rumors from sources unknown in spite of being provided MAN documentation. Your type posts are how these things start with "I read" or "I heard." First post was fine, but then when you repeat it after being answer, not fine.

    Like many lies perpetrated, this one is also often pushed by admirers of another side and in this case often by long term CAT people, most of whom have never owned a MAN in their life. Loyalty to product is one thing, but taking down another with false claims serves no place. I couldn't tell you about bulldozers as I've never owned one, never used one, and don't even know who the competitors are today. However, I employee two captains who grew up in Hatteras land and in a world of CAT plus on larger boats they were exposed to MTU but their first real MAN experience was in the last 15 years and they are huge fans now. Our chief engineer was primarily MTU because of the size of boats he was on but loves MAN now and has them in his personal boat. Our next engineer had never used MAN before working for us. However, our third engineer was very familiar with them from her early yachting experience in Italy and has never been on a boat with CAT, not even in Maritime school.
  10. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    Olderboater, The 45 cabo I put a contract on was advertised as just having the 2000 hr service...it got heads and turbos. That, along with what I have read would make the average person think that heads and turbos are part of scheduled maintenance for a 800 non CR.
    I appreciate all the comments as I am trying to learn as much as possible....we are all talking about fishing boats here..for fun boats....no need to get upset.

    I am very interested in others experience with the 1550 CR maintenance experience through its service life
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That's an advertisement that leads to a lot of questions. Why did it need heads and turbos? What other negligence impact on it? What's the service history? No, it wouldn't lead me to think it's normal. In fact, I'd think it's highly abnormal and there may be other issues. Don't listen to ads and scuttlebutt. Get a certified MAN expert to do the engine survey.

    I can't speak to a 1550 CR but can to 800's, 1100's, 1200's, and 1360's. Experience since 2012 on the 800's and 1360's, since 2014 on the 1100's and from 2016 to 2019 on the 1200's.

    All have religiously followed the MAN maintenance schedules. If we were coming up on due maintenance soon but going to be cruising then it was done early and every subsequent time moved up, so you might have 350, 750, 1100 instead of 400, 800, 1200.

    Now, I'll add a bit to that. I'm a firm believer in the critical aspect of the 200 hour service and the checks involved as well as tightening the cylinder heads at 400 hours and checking them at other times. We do engine checks before and after every use. We keep the bottom clean with 3 to 4 week intervals.

    I will detail the 1360, since the closest in size to the one you're considering. Now, let me say, I'd be very hesitant on the one you're looking at until much better information based on the information in the ad.

    Not that some timing was for our convenience and some to fit yard offseason pricing.

    1360, purchased October 2012

    10/2012-30 hour check includes all of M1 and M2 items checking every hose, tension belt and hauling for a quick check of shaft alignment to make sure the engine mounts had not settled. No abnormal findings.

    11/2012-100 hour check. Repeat of above. Not necessary but we did it. I'm a firm believer that things loosen during break in and hard running as well. We don't run like SF's perhaps but we normally cruise at 2000 RPM and 35 knots with some slow running at 1700 RPM, 26 knots.

    1/2013-200 hours. the above plus changed fuel filters, not because they needed it, but because the plan said to.

    7/2013-400 hours. Did the above plus retightened cylinder head bolts. changed oil, filters, air filter, and reset valve clearance although found very near to spec still. Hauled for Propspeed.

    12/2013-600 hours. Basically same as 200. Still no abnormal problems.

    8/2014-800 hours. Same as 400. Just checked valve clearance, no adjustment. (Oh to note at all oil changes sent samples for testing).

    10/2014-820 hours, 2 years. Replaced both valve caps on expansion tanks. Cleaned intercooler, turbocharger, heat exchanger.

    8/2015-880 hours. Did 1000 hour service, same as 200 plus changed oil based on 1 year mark since last change, even though only 80 hours. Hauled for Propspeed and to check shafts and props and decided bottom paint was fine.

    3/2016-1020 hours, Did 1200 hour service. Also hauled for bottom paint and checked shafts and props. New Propspeed.

    9/2016-1160 hours. Did 1400 hour service plus 4 year service. This included changing all coolant and all hoses.

    3/2017-1300 hours. Did 1600 hour service.

    9/2017-1500 hours, Did 1800 hour service. Hauled for Propspeed and to check props and shafts.

    2/2018-1640 hours. Did 2000 hour service.

    8/2018-1750 hours. Did 2200 hour service plus 2 year service. Hauled for bottom paint, Propspeed and to check props and shafts.

    11/2018-1970 hours. Did 2400 hour service.

    3/2019-2160 hours. Did 2600 hour service.

    6/2019-2310 hours. Did 2800 hour service.

    8/2019-2400 hours. Hauled for Propspeed and to check props and shafts. Replaced props with spares and sent for polishing to become spares.

    10/2019-2500 hours. Did 3000 hour service.

    2/2020-2700 hours. Did 3200 hour service.

    8/2020-2850 hours. Did 3400 hour service. 4 Year service. Propspeed. Bottom Paint.

    1/2021-3000 hours. Did 3600 hour service.

    No monies spent outside of service described above and filters. No repairs, as such. No replacing turbocharger or heads.

    Now, I'm not advising you to buy a MAN, just advising you to dismiss all the trash you're hearing. If you do buy one, use your fear to make you baby it like you've never babied anything. Note that we've done 20% more so far than the manual calls for, but we'd rather do things short of the hours than to run over.

    All the MAN's we deal with run like new, all still hit slightly above rated RPM with normal load and on it with very heavy load. Is it a testament to the engine or our maintenance? I'd think some of both. Among the other diesels we maintain are MTU's and Yanmars (in jet ribs). We've had good luck with them, although not quite as good as the MAN but then the MTU are much larger horsepower. I have to caution as well that we're at great advantage over many with our own staff and a great yard relationship.
  12. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    Awesome write up....nothing in that sounds an alarm against the MAN. Thank you very much for the time
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Yes, but do keep in mind we're the extreme for good maintenance. A used boat you find may have had excellent care or may have been subjected to lots of neglect. The maintenance of engines is far more critical than the brand is.
  14. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    Talked with broker tonight. Boat spent its whole life fishing the gulf. Most of those guys run slow,12 knots, because they can't carry enough fuel to run 30 knots to the fishing grounds. Will get more service records tomorrow. Motors are due for the coolers to be gone through but just had the service that does all the hoses etc
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    what you’re posting just does not add up. The 2000 hour service is the same as the 1000 hour service where all of the coolers are removed and cleaned. So why would they change heads and turbos but not clean the coolers? Most of the labor is already done if you’re pulling heads and turbo’s, why wouldn’t you pull and clean the coolers at the same time. Honestly, I would personally steer clear of this boat, but if you proceed have the MAN dealer do the engine survey.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    None of it computes. You clean the coolers at the same time as the turbochargers, every two years. They just did all this service and still more to do? Do not buy the song and dance they're selling. Only accept hard verifiable records and a survey you commission. Nothing else counts, especially not the ramblings of a broker.
  17. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    I'm sorry for the confusion...we are talking about two different boats. The one I put a contract on months ago was a 45....had a shady service history. Now I am talking about a 52 with the 1550 CR...these seem up to date
  18. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    I passed on the 45 after sending someone to inspect
  19. Punisherzx12r

    Punisherzx12r Member

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    Seller of the 52 and I are about 100k apart...i will keep tabs on it, still looking for a 52 with C32's or a really nice 45 with C18s
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Why not the 44' HTX, they all came with C18s?