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2001 Horizon 76 - Sea Trial

Discussion in 'Horizon Yacht' started by TahoeJohn, Oct 8, 2020.

  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Is there any warranty that will transfer to you? how long? extendable?
    How about the stb side? Any extended warranties available?
    Contact Cat directly with all the serial numbers for these answers.

    BTW, Where are you keeping your next ship?
  2. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    These are perhaps the best ones I took of the bottom and one of the fins.

    bottom1.jpg
    bottom2.jpg
  3. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    Good questions. I'll ask about warrantied work for both. Engines just had 11 reman injectors installed, as part of engine FW update, plus the $4400 engine surveys from this past week.

    I plan to keep the boat in Florida for some number of weeks, putting hours on her until I'm confident of her seaworthiness, and then have her shipped over to Ensenada. From there we'll move her up to her new berth in the San Fran bay.
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Shouldn’t the stabs have self centered while maneuvering? With Trac as soon as you reverse they self center.
  5. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Those fins look like non-zero speed Naiad.
    If they are (can't be 100% sure from those pics alone), when the pump is turned off the hydraulic circuit de-pressurizes, leaving the fins free to rotate.
    And gravity tends to settle them in that position.

    PS: I only just noticed that Naiad was indeed previously mentioned, so I can confirm that there's nothing wrong in the above fins position, while the system is turned off. Which doesn't rule out some other defect, of course.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Looks like Cable Marine
  7. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    You are correct. : )
  8. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    Yes, this is the Naiad system and fins installed at the factory back in 2001. Surveyor measured them to be 12 sq-ft, in case that matters.
  9. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    The captain stated that he either keeps them at "Center" or "On" while underway. ("Off" is the third switch position.)

    Another thing I noticed on the sea trial is that the port position-indicating needle was bouncing all over the place, seemingly with the pitching of the boat more than as an indication of what the fin was actually doing. The explanation is that the system is old and those needles aren't that accurate to begin with. I did view the actual fins while out to sea and they both seemed to be moving about the same amount, so I'm going under the assumption that the wild needle isn't that big of a deal.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    On the older systems, there is a rheostat rite on top of the fin shaft.
    Supposed to have a cover for protection.
    They still get stepped on and wet from bilge washings.
    IMO, it is a big deal.

    Properly installed, they do give you an idea of position and activity.
    The fins must be zeroed and stay zeroed for dockside maneuvering and backing.
    These needles will verify the fins are zeroed and not getting washed sideways when backing.

    No Stuff; Add it to the list of things to fix.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Man eating iguana hang out in that old rusted out barge just before the docks.
    If I ever got real hungry, I know where to bow hunt.
  12. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    Funny you mentioned those...
    iguanas.jpg
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Why did the surveyor day about the fins not being centered. Things may be different with Naaids but the ABT Trac i have on my Own boat and on the 84 lazzara I run automatically center as soon as one engine is put in reverse. This is to avoid damage from the prop wash.

    I m pretty sure all brands should do the same.

    How did you hire the surveyor? On your own or recommended by broker. Something doesn’t smell right. Just like the sluggish performance and blaming heeling on prop counter rotation.
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I agree that blaming heeling on prop rotation is a joke, and not something I'd expect to hear from any half decent surveyor.

    But nope, old Naiad fin stabs do NOT have the automatic features you are used to with ABTs.
    Before maneuvering/reversing, you are supposed to manually set the switch that TJ mentions in post #29 in the "center" position.
    If you leave them "off", the fins can rotate freely in any position.
    If you leave them "on", they continue to move regardless of speed, constantly trying to stabilize the rolling.

    Now, assuming that whenever maneuvering you are in dead calm waters, the boat should be rock stable, and therefore the fins should stay centered by their own, because the gyroscopic sensor doesn't "feel" any need to contrast a rolling that just doesn't exist.
    But in principle, unless you manually set the switch on "center", you can never be sure that the fins are staying centered.

    A bit annoying possibly, but that's actually early 90s technology.
    And aside from lacking automatic features of more modern equipments, I must say that they are very effective and reliable.
    All the maintenance I made on one of these systems, installed on a boat that I owned for 17 years, was one oil and filter change, nothing else.
    Also the position indicator needles always worked flawlessly.
    Talking of which, I fully agree with Capt Ralph: I also would want to see those gauges working as they should.

    Lastly, that captain who stated that he either keeps them at "Center" or "On" while underway obviously doesn't have a good understanding of how the system works.
    Leaving the reasons aside for the moment, if sea conditions are good enough to make stabilization unnecessary, it's better to leave them off, rather than centered.
    And in any case, I would keep them on at all times while underway, also in very calm seas.
    It's nice to have them ready to work their magic PDQ, whenever you should cross a navigation wake coming out of nowhere.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  15. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    It does matter, but at least in this respect you have no reason to worry.
    That's a pretty good size for a 76 footer, particularly since they aren't supposed to work also at zero speed.
    Unless defective, those fins should be VERY effective for stabilizing a boat like that while under way, at any speed.

    Just one warning, in case you are interested and someone might have told you something different:
    upgrading that system to work also at zero speed (i.e. while anchored) is a big and expensive job.
    In fact, practically all the existing components must be replaced: fins and their actuators, central unit, control panel, PTO pump.
    And others should be added: electric pump+VFD unit to drive it (or PTO pump connected to genset), and high pressure bottle.
    Essentially, the only advantage is that you already have a couple of holes in the hull, which hopefully could work well also with the new equipment!
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Should, but do not.
    Thru the years I have just automatically centered the fins when maneuvers are coming.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    When your from out of town and don't know anybody, the broker always tried to help quickly. Sometimes it may seem a lil bas-ackwards in bias..

    I maintain a list of surveyors. Some will spend 2 - 3 days on a big boat purchase. Not including the mechanical crew.

    Not a real positive vibe when the mechanical surveyor is the crew who has been working on the equipment.
    Hence my bad taste for Pantropic these days. Already burned one of our customers on large boat purchases.
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The big questions;
    Are you really in luv with the boat?
    Is it priced to sell with some bugs or priced to sell perfect.
  20. TahoeJohn

    TahoeJohn Member

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    The surveyor was one that my agent has used numerous times and seems to be both trustworthy and entirely working in my best interest. He may not be an expert in older Naiad systems, I'll give you that.

    I agree that something doesn't smell right, which is why I started this thread. It has been incredibly helpful thus far. In parallel with this, I'm firing lots of questions back to the seller's agent. Once the reports come in, I will no doubt have more questions. Thank you to all so far.