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1993 Canados with MAN d2842lze; cruising speed?

Discussion in 'Canados Yacht' started by vic13r, Feb 12, 2020.

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  1. vic13r

    vic13r New Member

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    The yacht is a 1993 Canados 23 with 2 man d2842lze.
    The cruising speed of 20 is reached up with a 2000 rpm engine speed,total weight is 61.000 kilos.
    My question is the 2000 rpm are safe??What is a normally engine temperature for that state and the weather conditions (the hot greek summer)?
  2. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Engine operating parameters should be in the manufacturers specifications. I am sure they are available on line or from MAN.
  3. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 New Member

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    It’s underpowered imho .
    Aged engines need a little nursing and care .
    I have only one 1/2 ( 2003 ) 13 L straight 6 ....2876 .700 Hp .In the western Med ...Italy .
    We cruise all day at 1760 rpm .Reason it’s approx 80 % load .
    Temps 85 , EGT s approx 560/580 ish
    Fortunately we have MMDS which shows all this stuff + much more .

    This 1760 /1780 rpm from a pair of theses gives me 28 knots in my hull .
    17/18000kg ish ? ?

    I would be worried all day at 2000 rpm ( 32 / 34 knots for me ) the load goes over 90 % nearer 95 % and the EGTs north of 600 .....Something like 630 ?
    Water jacket temp stays the same but the oil temps rise .
    I think when new and under 1000 hrs + warranty then fine .

    If you are really concerned and want know if it’s really” safe “ retro fit EGT gauges and run at the rpm to keep them under 600 with MAN .
  4. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 New Member

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    He won’t have EGT or load gauges.

    Guess only water jacket temps and oil temps . If theses are high ish it may mean the coolers are ready for a strip and clean .

    It’s the EGT s that are really useful to abide by in terms of longevity ( 1994 ) and low maintenance bills imho .
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    What s the rated RPM for these engines? Do they reach rated RPM at WOT?
  6. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I had egt and boost gauges put on my mans and am under egt is under 600 at a 2050-2100 rpm cruise. With everything clean max wot is 2400. But I have a concern that the location of my temp probe not in the right place to correctly measure egt. Would appreciate any comments on the location of my probes. Picture attached. Thank you. 47CFC4E1-F905-49B1-AC29-627E0661355F.jpeg
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    WHat load are you running at 2000 rpms? If the engines achieve over rated WOT rpm than 2000 rpms should be ok......
  8. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I don’t have the electronic displays just VDO gauges. So don’t know the load.
  9. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    I don't have your engines. But mine are rated for 2300 max rpm, actually turn 2350. I run at 1850- 1900. Over that I feel that my motors start to really go to work. But each vessel is different. As suggested get the manufacture's spec's and work from there
  10. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    You ever calibrate your tachs?
  11. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Short answer is yes, 2000rpm is ok, in principle.
    The instruments of your boat only allow you to check the cooling liquid temperature.
    And what MAN operating manual says about it is "80-85°C, temporarily 90°C allowed".

    Trouble is, engine cooling liquid doesn't tell you the full story, as others already mentioned.
    But when MAN fitted those engines (which btw are rated for 1,100hp @ 2300rpm, to answer Pascal question), no pleasure boat was equipped with EGT probes - not to mention load, which can only be calculated theoretically, on mechanical engines.

    Otoh, Canados fitted straight transom exhausts, whose backpressure is pretty low, so EGT shouldn't be a major concern, as long as the engines are not overheating (see previous MAN indication), and not overloaded (excessive weight, dirty hull and/or propellers).
    But this can be easily checked by running her at WOT now and then, just to check that the engines temp still remain within the above temp limits and that both engines reach the rated max rpm of 2300, regardless of speed.

    All that said, there's no reason to consider 20 kts @ 2000 rpm as THE cruising speed.
    Your Canados is steadily on the plane already at 16 knots or so, therefore you might as well cruise well below 2000 rpm, when not in a hurry.
    Besides, a good friend of mine with the same boat and engines nowadays cruises almost always at 10 knots or so, after retrofitting the boat with fin stabilizers.
    An alternative worth considering, in a boat whose hull, even if designed for planing speed, is very stable and comfortable also when not on the plane.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  12. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Your location is correct, and is in fact the same where I am considering to retrofit EGT thermocouples on my engines.
    The alternative would be to place them upstream of the turbos, but there's nowhere to fit them, on those engines.
    And also the mandatory initial tests prescribed by MAN upon commissioning of new boats were done on post-turbo EGT, anywhow.

    PS: my only suggestion would be to fit a probe on both cylinder banks of each engine, for the reasons discussed in another thread.
  13. mapism

    mapism Member

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    Apples and oranges.
    As I'm sure you know, your hull is much more demanding in terms of engine load at any rpm, compared to a boat like a Canados.
  14. vic13r

    vic13r New Member

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    Unfortunately I dont have egt or load instruments,the rated rpm are 2300,they can reach the 2300 but you see the temperature rise immediately.
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    If they turn 2300 rated rpm then 2000 is ok. That said I always like running around 1850/1900 on 2300 rated engines. Assuming the boat is fully on plane of course
  16. vic13r

    vic13r New Member

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    The extra weight on a boat make chances to the speed of plane??
  17. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    My wheels were specially cut for that rpm.
  18. mapism

    mapism Member

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    It shouldn't, also because if you are talking of a check that you made recently, it can only get worse - possibly MUCH worse - when the sea water temperature will increase during the summer.
    When is it the last time the heat exchangers were cleaned?
    Regardless, it's probably time to open them, pull out the tube bundle and clean them thoroughly.
    And while you are at that, check for potential corrosion on the shell seat where the large OR under the side cover goes.
    That's critical, because that OR has a double function, sort of: avoid external leaks on one hand (which are easy to spot, if any), but also avoid internal leaks/exchanges between the raw and the cooling water (which are more critical).
  19. vic13r

    vic13r New Member

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    Screenshot_20200213-215314_Xodo Docs.jpg Do you mean number 7 and 14??
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    MAN's like to run at higher RPM's than cats. All of the MAN boats I run, assuming they make over 2300 rpms (they prefer closer to 2350 if rated for 2300 and all MAN shops will tell you this if you ask) are at 80% load around 2050 rpms heavy and as much as 2170 rpms light on fuel. But they prefer a higher cruise RPM because they're making a lot more boost and HP there. MAN's don't have the brute low end torque the CAT's do and rely on boost and HP and being propped correctly to be happy...…….unless it's a fast boat and lower rpms keeps you at 25 knots or better, where you're solidly on plane......then that is ok too.