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1982 Motor Yacht 46.6

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by Hkalan, Oct 20, 2013.

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  1. Hkalan

    Hkalan Member

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    Hello !

    Thank you very much for the detailed reply !!!

    The plexiglass has the look of a shattered windshield right now, but still solid. Not clear and transparent at all any more.

    I have my work cut out for me on this one !!!!

    Now that I know I am working with original hardware, that puts me on the right path... I am here in Hong Kong, and the Mainland Chinese can copy just about anything... I have that to my benefit... but just saying that I already see the new window leaking HaHaHaHa

    Alan
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Not quite sure what word describes that internal crazing in the plexi. Mine is full of it. Nothing has shattered yet, don't think it will.
  3. Hkalan

    Hkalan Member

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    I agree,

    All three on this one are still very solid, but that crackling appearance is unsettling. Will have 6 made next week.

    Is there a difference in size from a 46.6 and a 58 ???

    It is nearing Christmas, perhaps I can have several made, and give away to this wonderful forum so we may all have a clearer and water tight view in 2014 !!!

    Alan
  4. Navatech

    Navatech New Member

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    I'm afraid you maybe understand wrong. My 1985 Convertible (Sport Fisher) which is basically the same hull has two fuel tanks (total 720 gallon): one integral (part of the hull) fiberglass tank under the sole just forward of the engine room and one non integral fiberglass tank between the cockpit and the engine room.

    You can see the top of the first one under the step leading to the salon (you should be able to lift up that step). You can see the top of the second one under the rear hatch (just forward of the steps leading to the galley) in the galley sole.

    I have two (roughly 45 gallon each) SS (stainless steel) water tanks under the cockpit sole (one to each side of the battery compartment) as well as an additional (roughly 310 gallon) SS water tank in the forward area of the engine room.

    As for black water (holding) tanks, at least in the US, they didn't have them. Originally Bertram installed Raritan Engineering's LectraSan waste treatment system… One under each head… If you have holding tanks they are most probably a retrofit. I would suspect that they are located either where the LectraSans were located or somewhere close (forward galley bilge or rear V berth bilge)… Just follow the big hoses :)

    Of course, if your rear stateroom also has a head you will have something there too.
  5. Hkalan

    Hkalan Member

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    Hello,

    Spent the last 2 weeks diving into everything... even started making all new panels for the electrical panel, started on the 23v. There are NO black water tanks on my vessel. The heads go straight out the hull. Replacing the heads with Tecma Silence Plus. Fresh water in the aft, and raw in the V-birth.

    I have been able to locate four 32v bilge pumps locally. I have installed all new 8v batteries and will keep the 32v banks for engines, bilge, blowers, water pumps. Will change over the other DC to 24v (the 14AWG wires currently installed will handle the amps I require for the LED lighting including the Hella NAV lights, and use the 12v generator bank (12v 400Ah) for all my SimRad kit on the flybridge and bridge.

    Although the 12v requires all new wires, it is better then rewiring the entire vessel.

    Does anyone know if there is a material that is better to use then marine plywood for the cushion/pillow for the seacocks ? They have help up for many years, but I will be going to the slipway in January to replace all the seacocks, and have "Copper Coat" applied to the hull (after a few layers of good epoxy as the base for the copper coat). I would feel better if there was a material that would be between the inner seacock and fibreglass hull.

    Alan

    Attached Files:

  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Plywood continues to be the best backing material. Wood boards will split with the grain. Plastic will crack,
    Make up your plywood back plates now, include some spares. Start coating them in sealer.
    The Bertram Cocks were held in also with bronze machine screws. You will need fresh screws, nuts & washers. Good Bronze screws and hardware only.
    Find the matching sea-cocks screw pattern.
    New bonding cables between all the cocks, Shrink crimps. bonding wire out of the water. mounted the the cock or flange on the high side.

    We did near all of our sea-cocks, strainers & transducers when we picked up our Bert. What a job.
  7. Hkalan

    Hkalan Member

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    Hello,

    I have measured all the holes and think I have the correct Perko seacocks with new fasteners to match... fingers crossed !

    I was talking to the SunSeeker shipyard folks at the yacht club tonight, and they say they use an iron wood that they bring in from Indonesia for the seacock backers (used for making the 15 meter wood Chinese style boats Hull). I have a sample. It is a very hard wood with tight grain... SunSeeker hulls are paper thin... the wood must be the thickest part of the hull IMHO :) But they move fast !

    Alan
  8. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    What about starboard for the seacocks ?
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It's too soft IMO also sealant like 5200 doesn't like to stick to it.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    For the same reason you don't use PVC below the water line. It will crack without reason or warning.

    The laminated veneers of plywood make it almost ideal. Grain running in many directions.

    A common direction board may still split with the grain without reason or warning.
  11. Hkalan

    Hkalan Member

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    Hello

    I can understand your point looking at this ironwood ply. There are so many layers of a tight grain, it is like a weaved mat when compressed between the hull and the seacock.

    I grabbed a bucket of sea water off the diving platform. Dropped the sample in it last night. The treatment of the wood still repelled the water overnight. A few places between the ply layers soaked in a bit. I'm sold !!!

    Great feedback gentlemen !!!

    Thank you !!!

    Alan
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Will it soak up some sealer? Keep applying some till you glue/bolt them in.
    ,rc
  13. Sophia

    Sophia New Member

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    Location:
    san francisco
    Bertram Manual

    Hi Alan,

    Last year we bought here in San Francisco, a 1973 Bertram 46.6 motor yacht.
    We have her original manuals, but I doubt that they would still be applicable to an 80's Bertram 46.6.

    We also have the same style windows as you do in the aft cabin and head, complete with crazing and leaking and we have just run across a product…which we have not bought as yet, that is a plastic film that can be cut to shape and applied over the window, and whose purpose is to help minimize the crazing effect on old plexiglass windows. Also, we have devised a clear vinyl panel that we can snap into place on the inside of the window frame, and which will then hangs outside of the window to effectively act as a shield over the entire exterior of the window as a rain shield. The vinyl is clear and thin and does not impede our ability to close the window and tighten down the latches, thereby pulling the window against the vinyl shield and the flexible weather stripping we installed against the inner aluminum frame. In the dry season, we just unsnap the vinyl shield from the frame and remove it entirely. On dry days in the rainy season when we want to open the windows for the day, we just pull the vinyl shield inside and tape it up against the open plexiglass window, though it's also a breeze just to unsnap it from the frame.

    By the way, were you able to have new windows manufactured in Hong Kong…and were they really reasonably priced…and would they be available to those of us with the crazing problem? I'm sure I could probably have a plastic manufacturer make some up here in the states…but I bet the cost might be exorbitant ! ! !

    Anyway, hope you're loving your Bertram as much as we are loving our old girl. We've just finished re-documenting her…and have re-christened her…"NIBBANA" which is the Pali word for NIRVANA. And yes…life aboard our Bertram is like being in Nirvana. What's not to love about living on the West Coast…on San Francisco Bay…out on the water…"bob-bob-bobbing along" ! ! !

    Sophia
  14. Hkalan

    Hkalan Member

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    Hello,

    After several attempts, we have returned to the original frames.

    The best result was cutting new (same thickness) plastic with the UV protection (has the same green tint as the wheel house windows). we had a local shop router into the plastic, a 3mm deep, 6mm wide track that matches the area that contacts the frame. We installed a hard, but yet softer marine grade rubber that is 4mm thick and 6mm wide.

    On the frame itself, we used a "D" shaped weather strip that is glued to the frame, and contacts the flat weather strip.

    When we close the window, the "D" shape and flat are very well pressed against each other. The bottom seal of the window, the compressed D style weather strip forms a ramp that the water will roll out and away. Down the aluminium frame, and down the side of the hull.

    We have tested with the wash down sprayer (marina fresh water and quite high water pressure). Inside was dry as a bone, and No little lines of pooling water at the bottom of the window frame. I would think that once a month I could spray a little silicone spray on a rag and while down the whether strips for the marine grade ripper to last forever !

    Because I removed the entire frames from both port and starboard, I saw that water was also getting in between the hull and the aluminium frame. Needed some wood repair on the starboard side (not visible inside, so Epoxy was my best friend). I used white SilkaFlex as the sealant when I re-installed the frames.

    Overall, the original Bertram style plastic windows works, it just needed fine tuning for the long-term.

    In total I spent an average of $82 USD per window... Port, starboard, and head windows of the master cabin. Keep in mind that I am in Hong Kong and materials are quite less, as well as labour costs for the routing of the plastic.

    On the starboard side, I had to drill a hole thru the wall in the master head so I could unscrew the the bolt at the top of the window. I covered the holes with some wide teak trim. Cannot tell that I ever dripped a hole, and should I need to remove them again, it will be easy !

    Alan