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100Ton Licensed Captain - Not Hired as captain

Discussion in 'Licensing & Education' started by boatingetc, Jun 28, 2013.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    A captain's contract is virtually non-existant. Anybody her operating with a written contract? Any of those with a contract that your lawyer wrote?
  2. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Be careful making such general statements on a site like this one which has a large following in the superyacht fraternity...

    Captain and crew agreements (contracts) are required by law on virtually all yachts private or commercial with hired crew that sail internationally.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    We're talking about a 100GT Master up in my neck of the woods. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Or do you see him running a megayacht?
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    You should open your eyes next time you leave the farm.

    The Crew Agency business is alive and thriving in many ports of the world.

    It is how many Masters and other professional crew find opening that lead to placements.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That would be "recommended to them". Let me explain "labor pool" as it seems to have lost something as it crossed the ocean. Guys with boatwashing businesses (and landscapers, pool companies,etc.) tend to get their unskilled workers at the local convenience store where the illegals hang out waiting to be picked up for off the books jobs as unskilled labor. That's the "labor pool". A crew agency is certainly going to tell a prospective employer what license a person holds.
    I'm afraid that your point never made it to the farm. Are you saying that you think the OP has a contract or that his license never came up? If so I could become a betting man.
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Not when you make this kind of statement.

    If you had written "Contracts for toy captains hired off the virtual street corner by word of mouth to perform day labor on toy boats are virtually non existent where I work" you might have been closer to the facts.

    There is a huge world beyond the coast of New York and New Jersey. And it doesn't have to be a megayacht, any master should have a legal contract which permits him to operate the boat, purchase goods and services, and contract work on behalf of the owner.

    Consider the scenario where the toy captain runs the boat aground moving it from A to B with no one else onboard. The owner claims it was stolen or used without permission. The insurance company covers the owner and comes knocking on your door for repayment.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Marmot,
    We all know that you tend to see what you want to see, but I suggest you go back to post #1 so you'll have some grasp of what this thread is about.

    As for your last paragraph, that's exactly the point that I've been making throughout this thread. Most of the "Toy boats" (under 80') are bought by people who fancy themselves captains. Once they try to run them and find out what's involved (like whacking 10 boats as they try to dock), they tend to hire a captain for when they cruise. They don't hire a full=time captain under a contract because the small amount of time they actually spend off the dock doesn't justify the expense to them. They hire a captain off the dock to ride with them so they'll have someone to blame. No contract; no benefits; preferably as cheap as they can get them. From what the OP has written and told me in PM this owner has covered himself very cheaply and the OP could well come to regret ever stepping on that boat.

    You even noted and commented on a thread where the owner of a 62' was looking for a "captain or deckhand" to live on his boat. You recognized that basically he was looking for a captain that he could use as and pay as a deckhand, but get the liability protection of someone with a license to blame. Do you think for a minute that he was going to have a contract, especially one written to protect that captain?

    BTW this is why, if I were getting into this business today, I wouldn't. My best recommendation to anybody entering this field today would be to get into commercial work or the mega-yachts. Forget the small boat market. It's not worth the financial liability risks. Let the guys who think they can afford and run a -$2M yacht fend for themselves. And yes I know there are now insurance policies, but independent captains can't afford them unless they have Swiss cheese coverage.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I see a lot or most Captains working full time on smaller yachts.....let's say 85'< and they don't have a contract. Most of them are hired verbally, handed the credit card, put on the insurance and get a pay check every week. It's a very common practice in the US on that size and most people in the US are generally trusting. I know that back in 2005, I delivered a yacht to Belize, the owner wanted me to stay full time. We verbally agreed on price and specifics and shook hands and I went home for 2 weeks and moved down there for 6 months. Before that I was hired full time as a mate on a large custom sportfish 70-80', and paid what amounted to Captain's pay for the amount of days I was expected to work 2-2.5 days a week, and that was a handshake as well and I was paid by the owner's company every week. A contract would be ideal spelling out what's expected and what's not. The question also lies if whether it really protects the Captain or crew. If you had a disagreement with the owner, the owner has much deeper pockets and many have lawyers on staff, that they could absolutely break you financially if you sued them. They could just tie it up and tie it up and your attorny's fees would be gigantic. But, it's just not that common on the smaller boats to have a written contract. You might have emails that state what the owner expects and what he pays, but not a contract per say.
  9. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yup, been there done that: Have been hired that way, and have hired people with just a hand-shake and a verbal agreement.

    (Now looking for a delivery captain to take a 1978 Endeavour 37 across the Atlantic to Norway, any of you studs available? Should be windy enough a with the 'cane season kicking in as we speak. :D)
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You're of course offering top dollar, a signed contract and releasing the captain of all liability right?:D
  11. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Well, this delivery is more for adventurous guys looking to build sea time> If you qualify, jump in, the water is warm..:D

    (A 23 year old girl is coming along, not sure if that makes a difference for you and if it does, does it make you a Dirty Old Man? ;))
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Finally some common sense in this whacky thread!!!

    I don't care what a contract says... If you are running someone's boat and they ask you to do something, either you do it or you explain why you can not or will not do it. Simple. You don't hide behind a contract... If you don't want to get dirty and clear a head, or remove a stain, you don't hide behind a freaking contracts written by some landshark in a law office. If that s what you want, you re in the wrong line of work, go get hired by the federal government or get some union job.

    What happened to customer service? "It s not my job" doesn't cut it in this business, Whether on charter or on an owners trip, everything has to be 100%.

    I ve been running the same boat for a little over 5 years now, mostly charters, it all started on a handshake. I am happy with the deal, I think the owner is... The day either of us are not happy, no drama... Thank you, it's been fun, here are the keys and the credit card, I ll be happy to bring the next guy up to speed.

    Too many darn lawyers. And too many people hiding behind them
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    This thread isn't about hiding behind a contract. It's about clarifying the job. The OP is a 100GT Master who seems to be doing the job of a boat washer and getting paid as such, except that he's on board while the owner acts recklessly. It's a question of liability and whether he should be taking charge.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Sexy senior citizen. And no she's not worth it.:D
  15. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    my memory is fuzzy, but was not there a place on the document for a master to be signed on ???:confused:
  16. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    You want to see a picture first..? ;)
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    In 25 years I've never been asked by the CG nor an owner to show my license for work on a recreational vessel. Only insurance companies and for commercial work.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Thanks, but a 23 y.o. is fun for about 1 1/2 hours. After that I'd want to through her over the side (sooner if she talked).:D
  19. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Where did the OP use these exact words to describe his situation?
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Those exact words? Never. However incidents he described in PMs were exactly that, and that's the whole purpose of his inquiry. I myself have been on board as owners got extremely reckless, almost killing people. My response was that 'if you won't follow my directions or relinquish the helm I am not your captain'. I then took a seat in the back of the boat so there could be no mistake about who was in charge of the vessel.