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Volvo IPS improvements

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by FishForFun, Mar 25, 2021.

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  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    its a $30k rebuild. Quite honestly, if most of these pod owners were changing the oil annually, most would catch the water intrusion before it did any damage.
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  2. f3504x4ps

    f3504x4ps Member

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    Capt J

    I never gave a quote for rebuild, it was New trans and pod.

    Around 25-40k for a rebuild and 100k for a new unit with flushing out all bad fluid and metal particles from destroyed bearings and cooler replacements. These are from what I've read on the Volvo IPS forum and other forums where owners had to replace trans and pod.

    I've never owned one and would not.

    I've read where several owners checked fluid before a trip all was good and after a trip then again when they checked it before next trip had water in one of the drives the oil. They staited that no fishing line was wrapped around prop shafts. Again, i've never owned an IPS but did a lot of reading and research, they will leak for no reason at times.
  3. sgawiser

    sgawiser New Member

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    As a long time IPS owner I can't let go the comments. We have a number of friends who hit bottom at full throttle and two knocked off a pod. They were recovered and reinstalled and the cost was less than half the cost of a replacement pod. And there was NO damage to the boat. We also have friends who managed to hit something with shafts and lost the boat as they pulled out.

    While the maintenance cost is higher on IPS, if you use the boat, the fuel savings, and they are real, mitigates a large portion of the extra cost.

    If IPS was such a risk, why are they so popular even though they cost more?
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  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Because, many are born every day..
    :rolleyes:
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Just wrong. We have someone in Sgawiser who actually owns a boat with IPS and knows several other owners relating real world experience, and I agree with his assessment. I've run quite a few boats with IPS and they're a pleasure to maneuver with. I also believe the fuel savings (which rack up fast), but that's dependent on many factors so can be debated till the cows come home. One thing that hasn't been mentioned and can't be debated is the space savings that result in a much less crowded engine room or more space in the cabin. How many people do we all know who have bent shafts or struts, bad cutlass bearings or trouble with shaft logs and rudders. Also when you're figuring the cost of conventional drives vs IPS don't forget to add in the cost of bow (if not bow and stern) thrusters. Running hard aground is expensive and lays your boat up no matter what drives you have. There is no perfect boat nor perfect drive system, but IPS has made for a lot of happy boaters since it was introduced.
  6. jeduardo

    jeduardo New Member

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    [QUOTE=" We have a number of friends who hit bottom at full throttle and two knocked off a pod. They were recovered and reinstalled and the cost was less than half the cost of a replacement pod. And there was NO damage to the boat. We also have friends who managed to hit something with shafts and lost the boat as they pulled out.[/QUOTE]

    You need to improve your friendships:D:D
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  7. sgawiser

    sgawiser New Member

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    I doubt that. Of many hundreds of friends who have pods, and have traveled thousands of miles, the issues reported to me are significantly more in shaft boats.

    But as a statistician, I have to admit that these are anecdotal reports that do not represent a scientific sample of boats with or without pods.
  8. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Because they do not.

    I mean, yeah, they do cost a lot to boaters, because they fall - hook, line and sinker - for all the hype that VP managed to create around IPS.
    Not to mention that boaters don't mind paying rididulous prices for some bits like the joystick, often sold as extras - as if they were rocket science technology, rather than cheap electronic bits built with chinese components, and prone to fail every other season, if not even just after a bit of rain.
    I'm not saying ALL boaters are like that obviously, but many. Surely enough to create a very lucrative market.

    But, and it's a BIG but, the thing costs LESS to builders - both as sheer powerplant cost, courtesy of VP aggressive OEM pricing (well aware as they are that the parts business triggered by a large installation base is where profit really is), and also in terms of manpower time and skills required for their installation, which can be even more important from the builder's viewpoint.

    In other words, IPS allows builders to save costs and fetch higher prices.
    Now, do you really think it's so hard to understand the reason for their popularity?
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    What's with the animus I constantly see here against Volvo? Is it just a desire to knock down a company that's innovative and an industry leader? Are they resented because they protect their patents? Remember all the griping when they came out with the duo-prop? What's unusual about a company giving retailers incentive to promote their product? When they first came out with IPS there seemed to be a united front by certain members against IPS and in favor of Zeus which is now all but out of business. Then there's the bashing because it's expensive when you break off a drive. Then there's bashing because someone's drive didn't break off. And forget all the debate about forward facing props. News flash: You're not supposed to run aground, and when you do it at high speed it's going to be expensive. I seem to remember a thread right here a few weeks ago about an 80' Azimut running aground by Merritt Is, and the result was they sank despite having conventional running gear. The fact is that I've seen a ton of people buy boats and be afraid to use them because they couldn't dock without hiring a fiberglass repair guy. They were bought, crashed, cost the new boaters a bunch of money then sat on the dock until sold. Joystick control IS rocket science. It's a game changer that has persuaded a ton of people to buy a boat and kept a ton more in boating. Should they not be allowed to own boats because they don't have the skill level some of us have? As for the cost of IPS, it's maintenance and repair costs it's a ridiculous argument when you hear members here talk about the money they pour into these toys and putting (3) $100,000 outboards on the back of a boat. Them from a company that came into the industry and sold out a few years later. I've got a ton of experience running boats with conventional drives. I prefer conventional drives, especially on larger boats. But there is a definite place and market for IPS in the industry. It's great technology and I think the use of pods will become more prevalent in the future not less. Many of the same people I hear complaining about IPS wouldn't think of running a boat without a bow thruster if not also a stern thruster. Those aren't exactly cheap, and talk about unreliable technology. Go to any marina and you'll here thrusters being pushed like crazy. Then someone will come in with an IPS boat and they'll just slide into a tight slip smooth as silk.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  10. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    It's not just about expense, it's about reliability. I want a drive system that will minimize the chance of breakdowns. As an engineer I fully understand how different systems work and how complicated they can be. I study and research products continually and look for failure modes. My 2014 ips 600 were well maintained and driven in a responsible manner. No grounding ever. Not run hard or abused. Been boating my entire 47 years. The motors are not well designed or manufactured. Way to many small and large issues.
    Life is about percentages. Trying to buy reliable products reduces the chance it will disappoint you. A few satisfied customers does not guarantee you a reliable product. I'm happy some people have few issues, I'm not one of them. Until you have been in my" broken down in spanish wells" shoes, you will continue to think Vp is fantastic. Few things annoy me more than a manufacturer that gives more power to the marketing department than the engineering department. Diesel motors and azimuth drives are not new. There's no excuse for not building a good product. The $100,000. Volvo got me for two diesel motors cost them millions in lost sales of heavy equipment and generators. I'll never have a good word to say about them again. Bridge burned.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If it's about reliability get a pair of old Detroits or Cats, Quite frankly I've had more trouble with Manns than I ever did with Volvos. No, what I see here isn't about reliability. Now I don't think VP nor any others are the cats meow. Whatever boat I've ever been on I spent my days wondering what would break down next and they seldom disappoint no mater whose name is stamped on it, and the more computerized they are the more trouble they are and the less the shade tree mechanic can do with them. With any reliability is dependent on their usage and maintenance. Let the boat become a dock queen or don't do the maintenance and you've got problems coming. More important to me than the name is availability of service and parts, and especially how the company backs their product. I still remember sitting on a transient dock for a week waiting for a part to be delivered and that wasn't from Volvo.
  12. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I guess you are referring to my previous post with your comment, also because you specifically argued about what is "rocket science" or not. But nothing of what you said proves anything contrary to my main point, which was about the reason why IPS gained popularity among many boatbuilders.

    Now, if you agreed with what I said in that respect, fine, the rest is just noise.
    In fact, I don't mind boaters who like IPS, if that's their cup of tea - it's just the principle that IPS must be good because they are popular "even though they cost more" that can only be either naive or biased. And THAT is what I strongly disagreed with.

    OTOH, if you don't trust what I said with regard to IPS costs, just ask any boatbuilder why they adopted them.
    Well, if you have a relationship with a boatbuilder good enough to get a straight answer, that is.

    Oh, and ref. joysticks being rocket science or not, did you ever take one apart?
    If not, you can trust me if I tell you that NASA would not touch them with a barge pole.
    Relying on those gadgets for controlling a boat, possibly installed in an open helm, and anyway in a marine environment, 'fiuaskme is beyond a joke.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It's not just what you wrote, but a lot of members. They seem to put a target on anything Volvo, especially IPS and I can see no reason except that they're innovative and successful, and people like to attack the successful. It's like sport. Every motor has some dissatisfied customers, and innovation doesn't come out of the box perfect. Anecdotal evidence proves nothing. You always hear from the squeaky wheel. The happy ones are quiet. There's a reason a lot of people get IPS, and it's because a lot of people are thrilled with it. Yes there's some who are not; same as there are with any motor, boat, car, heavy equipment, etc. etc. Doesn't mean someone's stupid if they buy what you or I don't like. Obviously Volvo is doing something right.
    The OP heard rumors. Gee I wonder where they may have come from. I believe he's looking at around a 10 year old boats. Most any problems with any motors generally get resolved during the warranty period, and the rest get fixed by subsequent owners who don't want to fix the same thing 20 times. Now if you're buying a new boat and last year's have a reported problem that's worth paying attention to, but in an older boat I'd be more interested in the sea trial, survey and maintenance logs on the kind of motor or drive I prefer. The fact is that IPS is fun in a really tight marina with the wind howling. It reacts to a turn of the wheel at speed great, and they say there's a fuel saving that some here have debated, but I don't think a few gallons one way or another is going make a huge difference in anybody's boating budget considering every other way boats pry open an owner's wallet.
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I've chosen to buy shafts vs. pods when I had the choice, but I think the animus against pods shown here is overboard. There are some very nice boats that come pod only and I'd consider them. IPS is here to stay and will continue to improve. It serves to fill a space in the industry. They aren't perfect, but they're not as horrible as some make them out to be. I've talked to some disgruntled owners but a lot of very happy owners.
  15. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I would answer that we use them despite the extra cost...
  16. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Extra cost vs. what?
    Did Delta Powerboats ever built anything on shafts?
  17. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    To start with, the same engine with IPS are almost twice the price vs gearbox from Volvo Penta, then you always need a minimum two of them. I don´t think that two shafts and rudders are that expensive.

    No, Delta are not with shafts, but I have three shaft boats myself so I know what they are...
  18. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    With any builder offering alternative powerplants (including non-VP and non-IPS), the first of your statements above would be plain wrong.
    I'm not arguing that it's correct for Delta, but if they are really quoting you say an IPS 800 at twice the price of a D11 with ZF305 gearbox, you'd better have a word with your purchasing manager.

    Anyway, it's rather your second point that confirms my doubts about whether you are really comparing apples with apples.
    There's in fact much more than shafts and rudders (whose cost is not trivial anyway, if made with half decent material) to consider.
    Shaft seals and their cooling, brackets, power steering, complete exhaust system, bow thruster (depending on the installation, possibly inclusive of dedicated batteries) and stern thruster.
    Last but not least, an installation of all these bits that takes MUCH longer and must be handled by more experienced workers, compared to dropping the IPS package onto an e/r designed for it.

    PS: as an aside, it's interesting to hear that when you picked three boats for yourself, you went for shafts. Wise choice. :)
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It is hard to compare apples to apples when they're not both apples unless you figure in the cost of rudders, thrusters, fuel savings, convenience, extra space, etc. That's why I say don't worry about the pennies when you're spending hundreds of thousands or millions. Get what you want, stay off the rocks and enjoy your boat.
  20. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I just picked the prices from the net, and you must consider that IPS are twins for this price. But still almost double and not LESS as you wrote above...

    VP prices.png