Click for Cross Click for Westport Click for Perko Click for Nordhavn Click for Nordhavn

New paint job this winter for my 56

Discussion in 'Post Yacht' started by ESSRTEE8, Jun 23, 2016.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. ESSRTEE8

    ESSRTEE8 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    56 POST in Monmouth Beach NJ
    So I am lining up a yard to redo my 2003 56.

    Having more and more cracks surface (CCP gelcote) and I am not seeing the shine come out of the gelcote without really going at it with compound and or wet sanding.

    I found this picture of a 2002 that was painted Ice Blue and Snow White.

    I really like the look. Having the mask done as well. Leaving the bow rail though.

    I'm torn between Ice Blue, and light blue( Ethereal Blue in Alexseal world)

    Painter wants to use Awlcraft 2000, I am leaning towards Alexseal.

    I know the Awlcraft 2000 is easier for the painter to apply, but the Alexseal is much harder and can be repaired unlike regular Awlgrip.

    What do you think?

    POST 56 Ice Blue.jpg
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Awlcraft 2000 can be repaired easily just like Alexseal. You're thinking of traditional Awlgrip. I'd go Awlcraft 2000 which DOES NOT GET WAXED, whereas the Alexseal NEEDS to be waxed...... I also think the Awlcraft 2000 has superior gloss....I did a hull midnight blue 2 years ago with it, and still looks perfect. If your painter prefers Awlgrip, he knows the ins and outs of applying it and I would use what he knows and prefers as well. The ice blue hull is a nice look.
  3. ESSRTEE8

    ESSRTEE8 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    56 POST in Monmouth Beach NJ
    I know the in's and outs of original Awlgrip, our family yacht "Lady Helen' gets painted every 7 or 8 years but next time we might do Alexseal.

    The one concern I have with Awlcraft 2000 is that it is softer.

    BTW, the Awlgrip/Awlcraft rep did recommend Awlcare sealer for the Awlcraft 2000 as well as Awlgrip so to me that put Awlcraft and Alexseal on the same maintenance program.

    From the Awlgrip.com website:


    Awlcraft 2000 Only:
    Waxing will help maintain the gloss on Awlcraft 2000 finishes, especially those which have been buffed or polished. Remember waxing leads to having to maintain the wax.
    Do not wax areas unless they are dull or hazed.

    So how are you to read this? Wax only after it starts to look dull, or wax it before it gets dull?


    I will still consider Awlcraft 2000, looking for more people that have it on their boats 7-8 years ago.

    Also, Hatteras used Alexseal now on all of their boats.

    Tough decision I have to make.
  4. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    You consistently post incorrect information about Aliphatic urethanes vs. Acrylic or aromatic urethane. Your above statement is completely backwards.
  5. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    You seem to have a good handle on the differences of the two systems. Applicators will take 2000 over a true aliphatic urethane every time
    do to its forgiving nature to apply and then "cut and buff" any suspended dust and debris on the surfaces and correct any sags within 30 hours after application. A/C 2000 has a good DOI and retains its gloss well but as you say "Soft" its not abrasion resistant compared to the aliphatic's & scratches easily under fenders and lines and tends to spot easier. I recommend Alexseal to clients or EMC coatings Quantum 99 hybrid urethane acrylic silica . Great results with high solids pigment and outstanding DOI and abrasion resistant.
  6. ESSRTEE8

    ESSRTEE8 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    56 POST in Monmouth Beach NJ
    The painter doing the job is the Viking Service yard in New Gretna. They have experience with Alexseal and AC2000. I believe you are correct about the ease of fixing the problems after spraying AC2000 and that is the main driver for wanting to use it.

    Alexseal rep did not say that I have to wax the boat, what he said was every layer or barrier you put on the paint will make it last longer. So waxing is not required, just recommended for those reasons.

    Love that input, thanks.
  7. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    634
    Location:
    Malta
    I need to paint some boats for a couple of clients in some years time, and every yard and painter I talked suggested Dupont.

    Alexseal has not much support here, while all yards said that standard Awlgrp is a nightmare to fix if you have damage.
    The benefit to Awlgrp is that it has a deeper gloss to most of the other paints all round on that everyone agrees.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    My statement is directly from the Awlgrip website, perhaps YOU should read it sometime. I posted the link below as well as the link to Alexseal's care and maintenance of their paint systems below if you'd like to educate yourself.

    If you read the post right above yours from the Awlgrip website, it states that 1. Do not wax, Awlcraft 2000 only needs to be waxed IF it has been BUFFED OR POLISHED. Waxing it will cause it to then be required to wax. DO NOT WAX AREAS UNLESS THEY ARE DULL OR HAZED....
    http://www.awlgrip.com/support-and-advice/topcoat-maintenance.aspx

    With Awlcraft 2000, it doesn't hurt to put Awlcare on it once or twice a year which is basically wipe on, wipe off, and easy unlike wax.

    To sum it up, if the paint was sprayed properly and didn't have to be wet sanded, compounded or polished after being shot, then it does not need to be waxed and should not be waxed unless it is dull. Just like the midnight blue hulled yacht we had painted 2 years ago, has never been waxed and looks perfect, I wiped Awlcare on it 1 time. We don't have any issues with marks or wear with fender covers.

    Now ALEXSEAL
    3. Sealing and Protecting It is recommended to apply a high quality wax or polymer sealer designed for surfaces painted with polyurethane at least 2-3 times per year. This will act as a sacrificial coating that will protect the paint and can dramatically improve the coatings life expectancy.

    http://www.alexseal.com/docs/general/ALXS_caremaintenance.pdf
  9. ruby

    ruby Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Long Island
    I would still use marine grade Imron, it is easy to blend for any spot repairs. I wouldn't consider Awlgrip. Below is a picture of my Scarab that I painted in Imron about 1991, it still looks that good today. That pic I did take in 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  10. ruby

    ruby Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Long Island
    image.jpeg
  11. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    J,
    You'd be AMAZING on Marine Jeopardy! Alex, I'll take Isolation Transformers for $ 200 I've never met a fellow who's a master of all trades. Be careful with the daily double though , Alex, I'll risk $4,000 on "Throttle Chopping" Ohh nooooo.... Too funny!
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You want to call me out on being wrong. Yet the information I provided was directly from the manufacturers website on care and maintanence. Be a man and admit your wrong when your wrong instead of smoke screening. I never said I was a master of all trades, but I sure as hell know how to read manufacturers instructions!!!

    The links are there. Both Awlgrip (awlcraft 2000) and Alexseal have a maintenance section with specific do's and don't regarding maintaining their paints. It's spelled out in black and white. I follow the manufacturers recommendations for everything on the yachts I manage as do many others.

    Just had an issue where a Volvo dealer did not. Dealer did the initial service on a new boat at the 50 hour intervel I believe it is, installed 30 micron Racors for a set of IPS 600's. Ran the boat 1200 miles all was ok, then went to run the boat north and the Port engine acted like the high pressure fuel pump was going bad. At cruise slowly losing and gaining 300 rpms and got a little worse as the day went on. The racors were barely even discolored and only the lower 2". Local volvo dealer plugged in his laptop, changed the primaries and secondaries....seatrial, all perfect and showed the owner where Volvo states a primary filter of 10 microns or less, NEVER 30 microns. Then ran the boat another 1000NM and all was fine.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  13. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    Master of all trades and obviously a legend in your own mind. I don't think that there's been a topic that you haven't posted to.
    Google is your friend....
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I deal with A LOT of different aspects of the marine industry. I deal with a lot of the major companies in the marine industry. I don't only maintain and repair yachts, I run them and long distances doing 12,000-15,000 NM's a year so I know how a lot of yachts perform in real life. In order to do that, you NEED to know how to diagnose an issue, fix it on the fly if you can, and be on your way again. Also run 150 different yachts/boats each and every year as well as doing a slew of freighter loadings/unloadings. Also running just about every engine brand, propulsion, and type commonly seen in yachts. I experience these issues in the field during actual use.

    I'm smart enough to know when I'm not a master of something and hire the appropriate person that is a master in that field. I'm also smart enough to read manufacturers maintanence instructions and follow them. When it comes to a $100k paint job that I'm maintaining, I follow the paint manufacturers instructions, then there is no issue if something is faulty with it.

    I started working in my dads automotive repair shop and body shop since before I was 10 (as well as the mechanical end of it), I know how to paint, prep for paint, and on and on, I must've sanded miles and miles of cars/trucks/boats with a DA as a kid..wet sanded paint and buffed it.......He restored corvettes as well as painted raceboats and built motors for APBA raceboats in the late 70's, both with Awlgrip and Imron back in the day when both systems were relatively new........I surely don't want to do any paint work on anything, nor swing a buffer, I hate it. There are also a lot of aspects I don't do, like getting under the valve covers of a diesel engine. I used to build race engines for my Street Renegade car (drag race) back in the day, but got tired of the drag racing circuit. But I sure have supervised lots of mechanics who do rebuild diesels, adjust the valves, set injectors etc etc. (for example). If you've ever adjusted valves on a gas engine not much is different on a diesel engine. I do the basic stuff.....impellors, fuel filters, oil changes.....I'm not going to pull over and wait days on a delivery for a mechanic to come to the boat because we ate a raw water impellor or have dirty secondary fuel filters...or the freshwater pump went bad or bilge pump.....you need to know all of the systems and how to fix them.....but I have seen ALL sorts of issues that most people don't see and can't recognize when they do see it with the various manufacturers. I know how to diagnose prop issues for example, but I'm not a propellor guru, I simply tell the propellor guru what the issue is....not enough RPM's, too much slip/caviatation getting on plane, not enough stern lift, and on and on.

    There are lots of topics I don't post to and various aspects I have not dealt with and do not comment on. That being said, I've had boats since I was 5. Been in the marine industry since 1999 in several different aspects. I'm not a legend, nor am I a master of everything. However, my resume is pretty impressive. That being said, I've maintained a lot of Awlgrip and Alexseal painted vessels, KNOW their care and requirements, and cut and pasted directly from the manufacturers website which re-iterated what I wrote to begin with.

    Now that you know my story, stick to the paint.
  15. PtJudeRI

    PtJudeRI Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Pt. Judith, RI
    The ice blue is a fairly common color, good looking though.

    In regards to the Alexseal vs. Awl 2000, If you have your heart set on a certain paint, find a yard that uses that paint. If they are pushing Awl 2000, its because that is in their wheelhouse, and they are experienced with it. Changing their paint may not give you the best results.

    Viking shop is boku $$$. Did you shop the price around? For the cash outlay, I would be looking in the carolinas/florida as well for some quotes.
  16. ESSRTEE8

    ESSRTEE8 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    56 POST in Monmouth Beach NJ
    I got a price last year from Luu Marine at HMC and he was exactly the same as Viking, plus the cost to get it down there, and HMC storage charges.

    The Carolina guys I have called don''t want to come up and look the boat to give me a price and a guy in Rock Island hasn't made it up to see the boat either.

    Viking came right away.

    Viking is in my backyard in NJ, 2 hours from where I live.

    Viking is versed in AC2000 and Alexseal they can handle either.
  17. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,261
    Location:
    Beaufort, NC
    ESSRTEE8

    I have seen several boats in my area of operation painted by Viking in NJ. The workmanship was excellent. But I can' tell you what was applied.
  18. ESSRTEE8

    ESSRTEE8 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    56 POST in Monmouth Beach NJ
    Correction from above post, Luu Marine at LMC in FTL.

    Rock Hall Md.

    **** iphone.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I had a hull painted by Luu Marine several years back.....I was not impressed, neither were they because they sprayed it 3 different times and couldn't get it right (it didn't have orange peel, it had grapefruit peel).

    I think Cable Marine does the best paint in the Fort Lauderdale area. AMT used to do really nice paint jobs, not sure now.
  20. ESSRTEE8

    ESSRTEE8 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    56 POST in Monmouth Beach NJ
    Unfortunate turn of events this morning.

    So I have a written quote from Viking given to me about 4 weeks ago. I agreed verbally 100% to the terms and price but asked them to put it into an agreement/contract that stated what work their quote was covering, their warranty/workmanship terms, payment terms for me, brand of materials to be used etc.

    I ask for this June 17th and since then crickets from them. Nothing, no return calls, no return texts, nada.

    So today I finally get the service rep/painter on the phone after chasing his for a week and he tells me that Viking management has told him that they don't want any big jobs over he winter, to leave himself open. In other words, sorry for wasting your time, but we don't want to trap ourselves with a contract in writing.

    I am not sure what to think here, the rep had told me that with all of the paint jobs they have done, they have never had a contract with a customer.

    Unless I am the first one to be paying I can't understand that. I can't imagine going in to a deal like this without protection for both sides without something in writing. Call me crazy, but if they come up with 'extra' charges that I don't agree to, what am I to do, they have my boat, and unless I pay, I'm sure they wouldn't splash the boat.

    It's also unfortunate that I will never purchase a Viking boat in the future, ever, and I did have plans to purchase in the future.

    So, I am now asking for recommendations for a painter in the Northeast, Mid Atlantic area.

    I can't believe what just went down.

    Pathetic IMHO.