Fatal boating incident with alleged overloaded 34' Silverton

Sadly incidents like this seem to happen every boating season. A towboat captain drowned a couple of days ago trying to assist a bass boat that was disabled in the mississippi . It was reported that they had a one year old child and a 4 year old on the boat. We lose people every year that think they need to fish overnight in the gulf of Mexico. I guess people fail to appreciate the danger of being out on the water.

It's pretty simple and never going to happen. You need to have a credential which shows, hopefully, that you have some knowledge of seamanship, navigation, and boat handling beyond the ability to write a check. Basically a Captain's license for anyone who unties from the dock in any kind of boat.

Of course the general public and boat manufacturers and boat dealers would never stand for that.

You might have mentioned it's a pay site.

Here is the same News 12 video.

Driver in fatal yacht accident speaks - YouTube

Today you can access a free video news report on news12.com, click on News, you will then be at Home>News>Top Stories, click the next arrow at the bottom of the Top Stories column and on page 3 you will fine "Investigators search for clues in fatal July 4 boat accident" which is a fairly interesting 1:55 min long story.

That's an incorrect assumption- I've run plenty of dinner cruises up and down the New River on a 150 PAX Skipperliner and on other vessels around the world. No crew and especially no captain can watch all PAX every second. If someone "sneaks over the side" and no one notices then you and the crew were not watching them "every second". That's exactly how people are lost. 15 is 385 less than 400. Your claim of watching all 400 passengers "every second" is clearly impossible.

We can never be sure of what caused the boat to capsize. We can assume there were too many people onboard and that appears to be a reasonable assumption. Now there are calls for rules to avoid the circumstances which led to this tragedy. Perhaps those calls will result in laws which do avoid future repeats- but it's quite hard to outlaw stupidity. We as professional operators can take as many actions to avoid injuries as possible- but the only certain way to avoid injuries on the water no matter how closely we watch those around us both on our vessel and other vessels is to not leave the dock.

Here is the response from Transport Canada , re, stability for pleasure craft


"Dear Mr. McMurtry,

For pleasure craft of not more than 6 metres in length, the recommend maximum safe limits have to be calculated as per the requirements stated in the section 4 of the Construction Standards for Small Vessel (TP 1332) that is refer in your previous email.

For pleasure craft of more than 6 metres there is no mandatory calculations of the maximum number of persons on board stated by the Small Vessel Regulations. As recommended in the information note after section 2.2.3.2.10 of the standard TP1332, the calculations methods in section 4 may be used for vessels up to 8 metres in length.

Other methods such as the ISO Standards 12217-1 may also be used for pleasure craft up to 24 metres in length, but it is not a regulatory requirements for pleasure craft. Stability calculations as per section 5.3 of the Standards TP1332 could also be used, but note that these will normally have to be done by a naval architect.

Regards,


Luc Tremblay
Manager Small Vessels "

"

Has anyone on the forum requested similar from USCG ?

I must add my 2 cents. First, I am retired navy (engineering), currently own a Carver 36 aft cabin, I owned a boat mfg. company for 10 years with boats up to 28'. Let me put some real facts on the table. The CG loading and stability standards are for boats up to 20' only, commercial craft come under different rules. According to my, still existing, CG manual for manufacturers the capacity formula for boats 20' and under, IN CALM WATER is as follows : Live Weight (people) = max. displacement - boat weight/ 7. The person weight is 130 lb. Now put this in perspective, the person weight is only 130 lb because this is the weight of a 180 lb man submerged in water. Remember these are rules for small craft with assumed low freeboard. All this being said, it has nothing at all to do with stability of a 34' inboard cruiser. I have owned and operated large boats for near 50 years both inland and offshoare, my conclusion is that boat operator was a criminal idiot !

"Horseplay" ?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the possibility of a youngster showing off, grabs the wheel and gives a good spin

Might explain that unexpected sharp turn that is being blamed on a rogue wave.

Not being current on control design, is there a lock-out of one set of controls when the other set is in use ?

The idea of a boatload of well behaved kids and no playing around, just does not fit in my thoughts. Lots of room to address blame and bad decisions, then a valve failure might allow full swing at the rudder(s).

Mr. Murphy is always around

Just a few of my thoughts.

Short Memories

It's now been less than 2 weeks since this tragedy, and I've already noticed the lackadaisical attitude returning with boats obviously overloaded, and parents giving in to children who don't want to wear their PFD if they scream loud enough.
As for the poster who thinks the skipper was a "criminal idiot", it's hard to be a criminal if no law prohibits the action. Idiot implies that the skipper did something he should have known was reckless. How could he know? Monday morning quarterbacking is easy but there were a lot of people, in a better position to know, who could have prevented this. The manufacturer for one, and the PD & CG who were all over the area maybe should have recognized the danger of the situation and sent them back to the dock. These are the professionals whom one would assume know better but apparently don't.
On duel controls, with electronic controls the station in use has to be activated. I don't believe this affects the wheel, but the operators hand would normally be on the wheel while underway. Autopilot though does lock out the use of the wheel if in use. The 34 Silverton has no 2nd station however.
Given the number of ridiculous warning labels all over everything today from 'coffee is hot' to 'don't tie plastic bag over head', it just seems a no brainer that recreational watercraft should have a maximum capacity rating. If the boat's manufacturer can't (or won't) figure it out, and the CG can't do it; how can one expect a Sunday sailor to figure it out before it's too late.

This boat evidently had the required number of PFDs aboard, but none were worn by adults and children below deck are not required to wear them. For those who don't already know this, a PFD is nearly impossible to put on once you're in the water.

I expect that a boat operator's license will soon be required in NYS. Such a push makes good headlines for politicians. However, these licenses are rarely more than a way for states to make money. Classroom and on-water instruction should be mandatory. It is for cars and planes, and the same forces (and more) are applied to boats. This also does not address the problem that this tragedy spotlighted. All boats need a capacity rating.
That would hurt sales though. So I don't expect to see any changes there.

This was on IBI the 16:th of July;

A US Senator from New York state, and the parents of a child who died in a boating accident on July 4, have called on the US Coast Guard to require stated capacity limits for recreational boats over 20ft in length.

Having a license may help, but practice and experience is what counts. With this sudden wake in the dark, the best is to cut the speed and let the boat roll, but many are trying to "drive" out of the situation, which often makes it worse.

Anyone who has operated a boat that is dangerously overloaded knows it instantly, the boat handles like a bathtub full of water. You can't make any law that prevents stupidity, you can only punish the idiot after the fact in hopes that it will make others to think twice. This being said, I, for one, am in favor of a qualification process for anyone operating a large boat. We have all seen and been in wonder of the lack of knowledge and skill of the weekend boater that does not have a clue about what he is doing or the dangers he presents.

Hi,

As everyone will no doubt have an opinion on this.

At what size would you say this licensing should become compulsory?

Would you see it as a one size fits all or different levels of competence required for the guy with the 60 ft sailboat compared to the other one with the 60 ft Magnum?

Myself, I would put it into classes of size and sail or power, 20' and smaller, 21' and up.

Would you see it as a one size fits all or different levels of competence required for the guy with the 60 ft sailboat compared to the other one with the 60 ft Magnum?

If you can't demonstrate prior experience, many insurance companies are requiring training from a licensed captain for the boat you buy. That might be a better way to regulate and educate, rather than let the gov't do it. That would be a FUBAR in my opinion.

I think Beau makes a good point. There is no way one size or type fits all. There would have to be many categories of both sail and power. When it comes to large power cruisers I think there should be a requirement of progressive size experience. My insurance company did ask for prior experience prior to insuring my 36 aft cabin but they did not require me to provide documented proof of what I claimed. I don't think it is reasonable that just because a person has the means to buy a big cruiser he is safe to drive it.

The Nassau District Attorney announced last night that no charges will be filed.
"Ms. Rice said the investigation uncovered “gaping holes in the maritime regulatory system and contributory design flaws in the vessel.”

The United States Coast Guard sets capacity limits on boats 20 feet or smaller, but says that annual reviews of accident data have not found enough capsizing accidents involving boats 20 feet and longer to justify a rule requiring limits for them.

James Mercante, the lawyer for the boat’s owner, Kevin M. Treanor, maintained that the Kandi Won was not overcrowded. "

More correctly stated;
There is not a law for being stupid. Nor for not having any responsibilities.
I can imagine civil suits coming up. Lack of sense (no stupid law) protects the victims also when they followed the heard and went on board.