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The Love of Classic Yachts (or knot)...

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by olderboater, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Mod Note: this thread has been split from a discussion on Trumpy yachts.

    The problem with a boat like this is that they can pour their heart, soul, time and money in and still have neglected much that needed to be done. Often, the cost is the limiting factor.

    That brings me to a question for drcoastline. I mean this very seriously as obviously you are someone who loves to and goes to great lengths to restore old boats. I'm not criticizing but trying to understand.

    Why?

    After you restore one, what do you do with it? I'm assuming it's all for your enjoyment. I would think no financial incentive. An old car you can restore and then sell for a profit. I wouldn't think you can on an antique boat or can you? I see it more like an extremely expensive piece of art than one has no intention of ever selling, but then how many have you done and what do you do with them all?

    Perhaps because I'm younger, perhaps because I never was around these boats, but I see an old boat like these with the maintenance they require and don't understand it. However, I buy boats for their use, their utility.

    I'd love to hear what drives and motivates you and then what you do with them.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2017
  2. baltimore bob

    baltimore bob Member

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    It all about love and passion Olderboater. I recently moved to fiberglass because I can no longer physically maintain the wooden yachts I love so much so I passed mine on to someone who could. Either it's in your heart or it isn't, there is no logic about it. These boats truly have a soul as far as I am concerned and that's why it hurts me so bad to see one come to this. Especially when it was 100% preventable.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  3. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    Olderboat,

    Why? It's a hard thing to explain. What drew you to your girlfriend, wife? Why do you love her? Hard to explain right? The physical is easy to point out. her hair, eyes, figure. But what about the person? What is it about the person that stirs something deep inside? It's kind of the same. These boats have a soul a personality that just doesn't exist in a plastic, steel or aluminum boat. It sounds cliché I know but they do live, they do breathe, they do have a personality. Not every old boat but some. I wouldn't go to this length for every old boat. I have a similar passion for some old cars and old buildings.

    For profit? No. And not every old car that gets restored sells for more than the restoration. In fact most don't. But some are special and do. But there are some old boats that can be restored and sold for more. But that is not my incentive. My incentive is keeping something special alive. Yes for my enjoyment but I have found others enjoy and appreciate them as well. I have been in places with my boat Trumpy #358 that in the whole scheme of things isn't all that special or worth all that much. But, it's great to see what it does to people. I have been sandwiched between multimillion dollar mega yachts only to have people walk right past them to stop and take photos with my boat and talk with me for hours at a time.

    Trumpy's are different than other boats. There was once a New York Times article calling Trumpy "the Rolls Royce of American yachts". Personally I don't think that was an accurate comparison. Certainly Rolls Royce is near the top but it wasn't the Best. The benchmark was Duesenberg. Hand crafted one at a time to an owners specifications. That's why when describing the best you say "it's a Duessy" and not "it's a Rollsey". That's why the Dupont's, Guggenheims, Dodge, Chrysler, Howard Hughes and Firestone and more commissioned Trumpy to build them yachts. They had the means to have any builder any where build them a boat. But they all wanted Trumpy's. Jock Whitney (Pratt and Whitney) didn't want to wait the two years it would take to get in line to have a Trumpy built so he went to Huckins and had them build a replica of a Trumpy complete with Trumpy Scrolls mounted upside down.

    Tireless when built was even better than other Trumpy's. She was the best of the best. She was a thoroughbred in everyway. As an example, there are race horses, there are good races horses there are great race horses and then there is Secretariat.

    I see you are in Fort Lauderdale. Perhaps you have heard of Rybovich? A different type of boat but in my opinion on par with Trumpy. Take a trip to Palm Beach. There are several Trumpy's on the east side of the Royal park Bridge in the winter months. Or take a trip to sailfish Marina in Palm Beach shores and take a look at some of the vintage Rybo's. See if you can get on board.

    See if you get that feeling inside like when you first saw your girlfriend.

    DRC
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  4. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    Let me also ad Oldboater, you are right, boats today are simply utilitarian. Cars today aren't any different. Even today's supercars aren't comparable to cars form the 50's, 60's, 70's. The new McClaren is already a collectors car but rest assured it will NEVER be in the same league as the 1962 Ferrari 250GTO or 1967 NART Spyder.
  5. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Wonderful to see passion still alive and well in yachting! Felt that way about our Broward, but simply reflecting on all the love we poured into that boat is exhausting. Recently got the tingly feeling aboard the Lyman-Morse built Insignia which I believe was build #3 of the Wombat, Magpie series. Tingly feeling subsided upon seeing price.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I just have never felt the way for a boat I feel for my wife. Not even close. We don't think of them as having souls, just being very enjoyable. And we've seen the Trumpy's but we'd get more excited on an AB doing 50+ knots (We chartered a 106' when we visited Spain and loved it although not one of their fastest). I know many who can't understand that. You see today's boats as utilitarian, but we love them.

    I think part of it is generation. Guessing you're a good bit older than us and you remember when a 1962 Ferrari came out. We weren't born yet, not even close.

    We do admire your feelings for the older boats. We think properly maintained or restored but we think of wood as an old, outdated method. However, we respect their beauty and the workmanship. We've seen the method in museums and a school.

    We just can't equate a boat to a person. We see the two very different. Now, we see pets closer to people and many people don't like dogs or cats.

    I think you did an excellent job of describing your views. Best I've seen. I know it would take passion to even start down that trail.
  7. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    I am not saying any tangible item or commodity is on par with any human. But it is a similar feeling. Not unlike that of a pet. If my wife comes around a corner unexpectedly I get that WOW feeling. When I turn the dock and my boat comes out from behind the Pacemaker in front of it I can't help but say she sure is a pretty lady. That is not to say I have the exact same feeling for the boat as I do my wife.

    I am of the same generation of the 62 Ferrari but with a few years less patina. I was fortunate to have been from a generation that did see those cars drive down the street. They were just used cars then. I am from a barrier island in New Jersey. During the summer months on any given weekend we would see two or three real Superbirds drive down the strip, Hemi Cudas, gt-350's and 500's and plethora of your every day muscle car.

    Wood is far from an out dated method of boat construction. Some of the best sport fishing boats in the world are still built from wood. Rybovich, Mann, Scully, F&S, Shearline, Jarrett Bay and more. Vicem yachts builds cold molded yachts to 80 feet. And of course many hydroplanes are still built of wood.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Our generation will have old things that they remember in ways the next generation doesn't. Many things that don't exist today or won't in a few years. The time will come that kids will be amazed at the stories of cars that ran on gas and probably shocked to find out we had to drive them ourselves. Then we'll think some car of today is special.

    They'll be amazed that we had to use remote controls for our televisions rather than just talk to them. Same with lights. Oh and you had light bulbs like this? incandescent and fluorescent? They'll laugh at the old timey microwaves that too two to three minutes to warm a meal and ask why it took so long.

    I don't think the items from one generation are any better or worse than the next, just different.

    I didn't mean to overlook the SF's and cold molded. However, not exactly the same technique as when the Trumpy's were built. Still wood. Still not something I'd ever look favorably on. Yes, I know the SF's do, but I'm not a sportfishing boat owner.
  9. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    olderboater,

    I am not sure about others reading these posts but you are loosing me on what it is your are looking to get out of this thread and your posts. Your first post was asking me "Why?'

    Your follow up responses don't seem to be trying to understand the why as much as trying to draw parallels to criticize the why in spite of your statement to the contrary.

    You drew a parallel between a boat and a woman some how trying to state that I made them equal. Then stating how they are not. Then you stated wood as being an outdated material. When I showed you it is clearly not you switched to the building technique. Of course one only need to look at Van Dam boats of Boyne City, MI to see more or less traditional boat building technics. Granted they use modern fastening techniques including epoxy. Now you are defending the present against the past.

    So I have two questions for you,

    1. What is it you are getting at, what is it you are looking to get out of this?
    2. How did you derive your screen name? It appears in conflict to what you believe?
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'm trying to get an understanding of your why and I think you did an excellent job explaining and I complimented and thanked you. My follow up post was simply explaining my inability to feel that way. Not arguing with you at all. I wasn't arguing with you. I said I can't feel the passion for a boat that you do. I feel it for the things we do on the boat and the people we do it with. As to building techniques, I simply said how I looked at wooden boats and understand that's coming from seeing many Century's and Chris Craft's sink on the lake we lived on. Again, I respect what they did and I do know that there are modern methods of building with wood used extensively, even if not for the majority of boats.

    Screen name, misleading, and sort of a joke as my wife selected it and set it up and compared to her I am an "olderboater." Also, I think she had no idea at the time that I'd be more a younger boater compared to this group as a whole.

    I was trying nothing more than to understand why you were so into old boats, what pleasure you got out of it. I see your passion and respect it. I just don't feel the same. Will I one day feel that about the boats of my youth? I can't say, although doubt it. Perhaps, my loss. I feel passionate about people, about causes, and about boating. There's no right or wrong, we're just different, and I asked the question because I sincerely wanted and appreciated your answer. Best explanation of your drive I've ever seen.

    Perhaps some here will consider this heresy, but that's ok. You see boats as living, as having hearts and souls. I see them as objects, usable for living but not living themselves. That's an essential difference. I think it's incredible you feel as you do.

    Now the woman in my cell phone who talks back to me, I'm still quite confused over my feelings about her. She's quite harsh when she says, "Rerouting" or "Make the first possible u-turn" but she does get me where I want to go.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You cannot compare a wooden built Trumpy or similar boats construction methods to cold molded modern wood construction. They are 2 totally different animals and incredibly different in regards to maintenance. Cold molded has little more maintenance than a fiberglass boat, however wooden boats like a Trumpy are incredibly maintenance heavy.

    Now, I can see your why, but to most people including myself it makes no sense. And as the years go by there are fewer and fewer people still alive willing to throw tons of money at boats like Trumpy's. All in all they're horrible sea boats by modern standards. And quite frankly not great yachts as far as using it as a yacht compared to modern ones (creature comforts, interior volume, ride, speed, range etc.) And, unlike a 1962 Ferrari which take a little more maintenance than a modern one, Trumpy's take an incredible amount compared to a new yacht. And, everybody knows that a brand new base model v6 mustang would outperform a 1962 Ferrari in every aspect and do so with power steering, power brakes, air conditioning and 30 mpg. But that's altogether different.
  12. baltimore bob

    baltimore bob Member

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    Summed up in post 9. Thankfully some people understand the Trumpys are classy enough to pass on to the next generation. Personally I think most new yachts are hideous looking.
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    And that's an opinion you're welcome to have. However, one day the yacht's of this generations childhood will be the old classic yachts. To me, the classic from my childhood is Hatteras. I grew up in NC and went deep sea fishing a couple of times in them. The classics on the lake were, in wood, Century and Chris Craft, and otherwise boats like Sidewinder and a couple of Rayson-Craft.

    I consider Trumpy's to be beautiful. I also like today's yachts. Riva would be a good example. I admire the early ones but I love the modern versions as well. I appreciate the views of those of you with passion for Trumpy and others. When I'm older don't know which ones I'll look back on most fondly.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I pretty much share the same sentiments. However, due to the fact that I run 150 different yachts of all ages.....and cut my teeth on old ones and still run new and old. I've found the new ones to be far superior in ride compared to the classics.....and would never own a classic yacht (even of my own era) such as an early Hatteras etc. myself.

    It's like the donzi classic. I owned an 18' classic 1989. It was one of the most ill handling boats that size I've ever run, it gave new meaning to white knuckled........my BIGGEST gripe with donzi is they could've made slight modifications to the bottom origionally designed in 1960's so it didn't porpoise AND chine walk all at the same time like a bucking bronco, once you got over 35-40 mph and the boat would still look exactly the same........They added a windshield to the 18 and 22' classics in 1989.
  15. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    No one was comparing the two methods of construction. Having owned boats built of both fiberglass and wood, new and old I can tell you that they require similar amounts of money in regard to maintenance. To use your phrase. "They are 2 totally different animals and incredibly different in regards to maintenance."

    I also have to ask, do you think that v6 mustang will be held in the same regard as the GTO fifty years from now? Will people be talking about it? Will anybody care? How about that boat you're talking abut, will it be around 50 years from now?
  16. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    I grew up on a 1974 Hatteras 55 yacht-fish. Loved it. That is a note worthy fiberglass boat people restore and covet, as well as the 36 and 42 of the 80's. The Bertram 31, How about a potter hull SeaCraft, Mako 25 inboard? All great Boats.

    Oldboater- I get the feeling you are a go fast boat guy? I like plenty of Don Arronows creations. The Original Cigarrette, Donzi 16 classic, Formula 28. How about Dick Bertrams original Moppie that won the Nassau-Bahama race that started the deep V craze and spawned the Bertram 31. Cigarette hull #1 was at the Palm Beach classic regatta last year. Very cool.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    They will never be as old as the GTO and probably not as rare but here are cars of the 80's that I think will be highly regarded 20 years from now.

    1987 Dodge Charger Shelby
    1982 Mustang GT. First year back I believe.
    1985 Camaro IROC-Z
    1989 Turbo Trans Am

    I think some versions of the Dodge Viper and the SRT demon will be 50 years from now.

    Maybe the last gasoline fueled car will be highly valued.

    Each generation is going to have those things it looks fondly back on. Those don't end suddenly with one generation. What about Model A's and T's. What do you think a 60 year old thought of a GTO in 1964? They were saying the exact same things you are about cars of more recent years. Especially since the first GTO's were just optional Tempests, then it's own model in 1966.

    I cannot predict what a 20 year old today will highly value 50 years from now. However, I do predict there will be something. There are many years of Corvette's valued for different reasons. 2018 is rumored to be a very short season and maybe the last of this model. If so, it could be highly valued one day.

    Things are the last of their generations or their type, but never the last great. Now I wish I hadn't looked, but just found a 1970 and a 1972 Sidewinder for sale. Beautiful boats to me. I doubt seriously that you'd like them, but they were the hottest, most beautiful boats on the lake when I was a kid. Metalflake and fast. 60 mph. And the handled so incredibly well and rode well. Now, I'm not passionate about them but wouldn't mind owning one. That's bad enough, but my wife just said, "We need one of those."
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    None of this changes my feelings that the Trumpy in question was beautiful at one time and I'm sorry with all the effort you weren't able to save it and applaud your passion. Saying I don't share it doesn't in any way say I don't admire or respect it.
  19. drcoastline

    drcoastline New Member

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    Can't say I know the Stinger but loved the checkmate, Glastron GT-150, SeaCraft Corvette. In high school A buddy of mine had a Hydrostream with a shaved pad and a foot throttle. Had a Merc tower of power mounted on a jack plate. We did a speed run down the canal. I was laying on my back taking a photo of the speedometer. blew through a train bridge at 93MPH. That thing was scary when she started to chine walk.:D
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    And don't forget the Glastron Carlson's as in the Bond movies. Watching them fly through the air and over things. They tore up a lot of boats in filming.

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