Drug Testing

A drug test is required for original issue and for renewal of a license and/or merchant mariner's document. If you are subject to random screening and can prove it, you don't have to take a periodic drug test. If you are subject to random screening and have taken a drug test within, I believe, 6 months of renewal, you don't have to do another for the renewal.

A mariner employed in a commercial operation is subject to random drug screening. Even self-employed owner operator captains fall under this requirement if they take people for hire.


http://www.dot.gov/ost/dapc/testingpubs/Marine_Employers_Drug_Testing_Guide_2005.pdf

Marmot, Thank you providing the link to that as I don't have these forms commited to memory as I suppose I should. You may want to look at the following from page 4 of that form :

Section VII – Certification of Physical Impairment or Medical Conditions
· Identify the condition · Date of diagnosis
· Any limitations · Prognosis
Does the applicant have or ever suffered from any of the
following?
If YES, PROVIDE TEST RESULTS, AS INDICATED.
If YES:
· Is condition controlled
Yes No 1. Circulatory System Remarks (Please Print)
a. Heart disease (Stress Test within the past year)
b. Hypertension (Recent BP reading)
c. Chronic renal failure
d. Cardiac surgery (Stress Test within the past year)
e. Blood disorder/vascular disease
2. Digestive System
a. Severe digestive disorder
3. Endocrine System
a. Thyroid dysfunction (TSH level within the past year)
b. Diabetes (State effects on vision & HgbAlc w/in 30 days)
4. Infectious
a. Communicable disease
b. Hepatitis A, B or C
c. HIV
d. Tuberculosis
5. Mental System
a. Psychiatric disorder
b. Depression
c. Attempted suicide
d. Alcohol abuse
e. Drug abuse
f. Loss of memory
That calls for a drug test.
Reading post 19 & 21 it sounds like there are two Marmots or are you trying to point out some obscurity in terminology that in fact the rules say yes and no. The bottom line to anyone who does not know the CFR and every other thing written by washington bureaucrats and admiralty lawyers is...in plain english...you ARE required to be free of illegal drugs; you must submit proof of that at the time of license renewal, and you are subject to random drug screening.

Hi,

Wow, Do you guys and gals really get tested for all those things for your Seafarers Medical?

Some of those are pretty onerous- How for example does the Medical Practitioner who according to a statement elsewhere is only supposed to need 10 mins to fill out the form really supposed to determine if you suffer memory loss? or Abuse Alcohol unless you turn up completely **** faced?

Unless I fail to understand this. If you can prove you are subject to random testing and have had one in the last 6 months you do not need to have another one to get your license renewed.

So as stated earlier a drug test is not compulsory at time of taking this medical and renewing your license.

Reporting a medical history of drug abuse is not a drug test.
Reporting a medical history of mental illness is not a psychiatric exam.
Reporting a medical history of alcohol abuse is not a blood alcohol test.

And since you are having problems understanding the above, let's go back to the following.

"A drug test is not part of the USCG required physical exam."

A drug test is a drug test. It is taken under very strictly defined conditions and documented according to very strict legal procedures on very different forms. Few of the medical people authorized to conduct a seafarer's medical exam are certified or equipped to perform a drug test.

There is no obscure terminology. There are two separate and very distinct issues.

Post 19 says a USCG medical exam does not include a drug test.

Post 21 says that mariners subject to random drug testing who have been tested in a 6 month (?) window prior to renewal do not have to provide a more recent drug test prior to submitting the application.

Did you report "loss of memory" on your last renewal application?

Welcome to RED TAPE. No the test does not have to be taken the day of the physical exam. In fact most doctors are not certified to do the drug test. The test has to be done, by a certified lab, within 6 months of the physical. The doctor then marks the form and sends the form in. The drug screen has already been submitted directly by the lab. Some of the things on that form are completely rediculous and impossible for the doctor to ascertain within the scope of a 10 minute exam. In fact it probably takes 10 minutes just to fill out the 4 pages of the form. The doctor asks you if you're crazy, can you remember your name and watches to see if you pass out from being drunk. Some people think it's more important to know this minutia than to be able to run a boat safely. Most of us just call the CG at renewal time for a packet, go to the lab and the doctor, let the doctor and lab figure out their forms while I figure out mine and submit. Life is too short and here's several minutes I'll never get back.

"Wow, Do you guys and gals really get tested for all those things for your Seafarers Medical?"

Someone seems to have missed a critical part of the instructions:

"Does the applicant have or ever suffered from any of the following?"

No, like reporting broken bones, previous surgeries or venereal diseases, you don't have to submit to testing for, or demonstrate, any of those conditions in the doc's examining room.

And probably more to the point, you can get a USCG medical at any time without getting a drug test. There is no connection between the two. None Zip, Zero, Nada ... just as you can get a drug test without a medical.

But if you get busted for drugs (edit - or voluntarily go to rehab) and don't report it as a history of drug abuse you will get nailed for lying on your medical application.

No! I forgot. Now I'm heading out for a nice dinner and forgetting this entire exercise in I don't know what.

In order to renew your USCG masters license one needs BOTH a USCG approved physical and a USCG drug test done within I think it's 6 months of renewing.

Medical within 1 year Drug test within 6 months

So the short answer is, as we all knew, yes you have to take a drug test to get or renew your USCG license.

That is an answer but it is to the wrong question. The original statement was that a drug test is part of the medical, it is not. Someone else later tacked on the bit about renewals and that wasn't what the discussion was about.

And if you really want to get technical about it, a USCG physical is acceptable for service on Cayman flag vessels (among others) and no drug test is required, so that brings us back to the original point that the medical and the drug test have nothing to do with each other. It really never was that complicated ...

You seem to enjoy picking nits. Well, to each his own as they say.

If the price of an uneccessary drug test is a nit then so be it.

Marmot,

You're obviously a very intelligent and well read man. However, with your posts I'm never sure if you just lack a gentle bedside manner or if you easily feel threatened, angered or offended by others.

Maybe it's something else completely.

Either way, I've learned a lot from your posts, for which I'm greatful.

"Maybe it's something else completely."

Like the old saying, "I suffer fools badly." I am paid to make sure owners and my employer are protected from those who threaten their well being and fortune through ignorance or otherwise well intentioned acts founded on misinformation and poor training. When I see examples of that sort of thing posted as "fact" and advice on a yachting forum populated by those who are supposed to know and those who come for information they can use to make decisions, it often tests my "bedside manner" when for the most part, information that is now easily found online directly from the source is misrepresented.

When "captains" and other experts fight to defend false information it strikes me as symptomatic of the reasons we have so many crew related problems in this business and owners pay so much for the growing lack of professionalism that we find.

As long as someone gets something useful then it is worth the time, thanks.

With the exception of a little ridiculousness this thread has gone much as I would have expected. Stevenpet, from your location I'd have to guess that the epidemic you're referring to is Meth. Like crack it is filling our jails and ruining lives. These are sad souls and I so wish we'd be giving them help and rehab instead of turning them into unemployable felons with no hope but that's another story. In the boating world I've found that the days of the cocaine cowboy and Miami Vice are gone. People are too busy making a living and raising families to be associating with drug dealers. There's an occasional joint but not much else. Even irresponsible drinking isn't that prevalent although it's probably the worst of the lot these days. The same carries over to crews. They know that no good is going to come from pulling out a joint on the bow and they know that nobody is going to tolerate less than 100% attention and effort. We're just dealing with too much money. The responsibility is too great. So basically I look on the drug tests as mostly a waste of time and money although they do have their place (as mentioned earlier) and they've created another industry that employs people. That is probably why this thread hasn't appeared before. It's just not that big a problem in our industry today.

There are 2 ways of teaching: one is to quote facts, figures, rules and regs. The other is to put it in plain english. Sometimes a book needs to be written to answer a question; sometimes a yes or no is sufficient. A skilled professor knows which to use when.

For me it was relatively easy to just fire an employee who was screwing up because of drugs, feel a sense of betrayal and get on with my work. But after I adopted my son, who’s mother and two older brothers, whom I've never met, are homeless junkies on the street—it hasn’t been so easy. He honestly cares for these people in spite of what they put him through for so many years.

Now that I’m much more aware of the signs of drug abuse—marijuana, meth, crack and Ecstasy, I’ve had a few occasions where I confronted the employee before it became a big problem and most were able to turn things around and are good loyal employees to this day. (Even though I’ve moved on.)

Just like the best solution is to NOT pull out of English Harbour when the crime rate is rising, but to fight back and find a solution. I can’t see that the best solution regarding drugs is to just leave the crew member on the nearest spot of land and never look back. These are real people living real lives and facing real world issues—not just disposable chattel.

Of course on a vessel, the negative effects of drugs can have far greater negative effects than in an office.

No Ka Oi, bruddah

Fantail Fireflies Rule!!

Toastie Coastie