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Caterpillar 3196

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by islandlure, Feb 3, 2017.

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  1. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    The ole 2 stroke Detroit's motors use these meaningful & different terms in physical placement of the air cooler in relation to the blower (supercharger).

    The terms are often used as the same option on other brands of motors that do not have a scavenging blower (supercharger).
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    No intercoolers cool the air intake before the air goes into the turbo. Aftercoolers cool the aftercharge or air after it is compressed by the turbo before it goes into the motor. Compressing air creates heat in the air, plus the turbo itself is hot. Cooler air=more dense air=more power.

    Cat also put the year mandate on changing aftercoolers on C18's and C32's etc.
  3. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    Am I reading this correct; Detroit cools air before it goes into a turbo charger?
    Post #19 is not correct?
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Detroit intercooler cools the air after the turbo but before the blower. Aftercooled detroits cool the air after the turbo and blower......
  5. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    Yep.
  6. bayoubud

    bayoubud Member

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    Got it... They achieve the same thing cooling charge-air form a turbo or supercharger.

    There are a lot of Cats with way more than 6 years years time on the aftercoolers.
  7. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    Post 19 & 24 are correct. Your comment is on the target page but not centered.

    Cat 3116 & 3126 aftercoolers had some issues depending on what day of the week it was built.
    Other models built by different mfg's seem to last forever. Some not as long.
    The newer and larger Cats don't seem to have a good or bad H/E, even though there have been some design changes. Sooner or later they will fail.
    I kind of think it's the warranty poker game; A bad H/E in a C32 making power will be totaled quickly and without warning. Cat warranty does not want to give you a new block.
    So, They make you replace the H/E before the ods go against them (Cat) stating they are protecting the owner. New warranty contracts do not cover H/E failures anymore.
    Extended warranty for a pair of 6 year old, 1652HP / C32s is over $75K. On top of all other maintance (22 gallons of oil each), what's another $30K every 4 years.

    I cant afford to feed 1652hp-C32s at idle so these number$ just make my back quiver.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Actually the C32's had aftercoolers with issues too. I've seen several with the aftercoolers changed under warranty etc. One style has a finned cover plate and the other style is not finned. Changing the aftercooler to the new design requires changing the cover plate too and adds to the price.
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    We replaced the after coolers on the 1200 hours 2009 C32s of the lazzara 84 i started runnng a year ago. We did it right away after discussing it with a couple of cat specialists and surveyors. Personally I thought it was better value than extending the warranties. Cost for both aftercoolers was about $30k for both if I remember correctly. The new style is supposed to fix the potential failure point

    On the other hand the 3412E aftercoolers have no known issues
  10. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    Some more fun info;

    On the 72 Hat I support, one engine was already replaced by Cat during the first owner.
    The extended warranty cost more for this newer engine, never could figure this out.

    Despite PanTropic (Big S FL Cat shop) cleaning and inspecting the aftercoolers, completing purchase deals a year ago and continuing the extended Cat warranty.
    Cat up here has been insisting on the new air coolers shortly after. Ignoring the inspection and expense at PanTropic.

    Same boat, the aftercoolers were just changed and the block adapter was needed on the older engine, there was some core credit on the old parts.
    Like we have been commenting on, near $30K and a warning to plan on it again in 4 years.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I know of another 72' that had C30's and one had a cracked block, owner replaced both with C 32's. I know of several 80's that had one motor rebuilt under warranty as well. These were mainly due to aftercooler issues. In the early stages there were some issues with the C 32's.

    A slew of them were rebuilt or heavily modified when the first C 32's came out actually, the first 100 sets thereabouts. I cannot remember what the actual issue was, wasn't aftercoolers, it was something in the valve train.....valve keepers or something along those lines.

    I've been hearing every 7 years the aftercoolers need changing from CAT people here in South Florida.
  12. bayoubud

    bayoubud Member

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    Our last boat had 3412e's without any cooler issues...great motors. Recently surveying c12's/3196 the surveyor pointed out the aftercoolers was positioned high and directly over the intake ports on the head. Gravity and air flow carry raw water leaks or condensation into the intake ports. The culprit is how the raw water is plumbed on each end it was obvious while scoping the aftercoolers there was damage already there. Not sure if the other 31 series are the same. By contrast the 3406 aftercooler is lower and below the intake ports and does not have the same issues. In Pascal's case $30k on c32's works out to $5k per year plus service if you adhere to the 6 year lifespan just for aftercoolers... Previously it was a clean and test for coolers. Those numbers Ralph posted for warranty's plus maintenance would change my mind on another pair of 12 cyl Cats. The way we use a boat now has changed a bit and makes me pause to consider which motors are needed in the ER and the maintenance required.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Well that is true. 12 cylinder modern motors are expensive to maintain and take care of, but they're also BIG motors. Let's stick to CAT's a C18 motor overall is going to be considerably cheaper than a C32, but it's also half the price for a new one compared to a C32, so the costs are relative to HP. MAN's are probably more still to maintain if you adhere to cleaning and inspecting all of the coolers every 2 years in order to stay in warranty.

    Yes, changing the aftercoolers is expensive, but at least you can save a few thousand over having the old ones cleaned. :D

    Quite honestly, I see a lot of SF where C18's would be a better fit all of the way around, much less fuel burn, less maintenance expense, less weight,better ride, better range, easier to get around the engine room......with a cruise of say 30 knots compared to 34 knot cruise with C32's, yet they're all ordered with the C32's because everyone wants that extra 4 knots.......yet half the time end up running slower than cruise anyways.
  14. bayoubud

    bayoubud Member

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    Yeah, unless you have to have the speed the C18's are the ticket. I will stay with the inline 6's. Have to say I am disappointed in Cat's new service schedules... a game changer.

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