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Best boat type in 40ft range for Mediterranean Sea

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by BFOD, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. BFOD

    BFOD New Member

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    I am completely new to boating. The first step is completed, I have my ICC a yacht master license is for later on.

    Have been locking for used boats for about 8 months now and have been reading the book “Mid size power boats” by David H. Pascoe to understand how boats are made, different type, what to look for before the cost is made for a professional surveyor.

    My first experience was a 3 hours boat trip on a Bayliner 3055 Ciera year 2002 with wind force 4 to 5 and 3ft to 4ft sea. The ride was fun for about 30 minutes but became very uncomfortable. The second experience was a 12-meter Rodman wind force 3 to 4 and 3ft to 4ft sea. Again, the same experience but slightly better that the first one. The Rodman is clearly a different boat than the Bayliner.

    It was clear that the med sea is no lake, the selection of the boat will be more technical than simply on looks.

    I have been following the sea state during months in the south Alicante / Ibiza area using the iPAD APP “windy”. It became clear that swells less that 2ft are exceptional. During The week swells are more in the range 2ft to 4ft. As an example, the forecast for next week by “windy” is 2ft to 4ft with on Sunday 8ft and 6ft on Tuesday. Swell period is around 6 seconds.

    The idea is to buy a used boat to do trips around the med sea along the coast (Spain, France, Italy) and on occasion open sea for a maximum distance of 190 nm, Menorca to Majorca would be the longest trip in open sea. Open sea trips are not for tomorrow more experience and a yacht master license will be needed first.

    Poke around the internet and it became clear that there are different boat types for different kind of boating. Have been looking to Nordhavn, Selene, Kadey Krogen, Defever and other full-displacement types. I guess that these ships are a bit of an overkill for the trips I am planning to make. I fully understand the different of full-displacement, semi-displacement and planing hulls. There is a big step between understanding the difference and having some experience with different type of boats.

    This will be my first boat and my last, so I need help from people with experience.

    I like a boat with safe and wide sidewalks, sundeck, possible for overnighting for 1 couple and two couples on occasion but most of all a comfortable ride for the med sea with 2ft to 3ft sea.

    So, I came to the trawlers, Grand banks and Beneteau Swift type of boats. I hope that semi-displacement boat types will give a more comfortable ride. Speed, who needs speed? I learned that full-displacement boats are limited to hull speed, in knots equals 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length in feet. For 42 feet boat, this is about 8.5 kn. Having the possibility to go a bit faster than 8 kn is well appreciated. This means we are in the semi-displacement type of boats. Full-displacement is still an option if it makes an enormous difference on ride quality and or safety. In case of full-displacement a stabilizer will be needed.

    Comfort and hull quality build will guide my choice. I have been looking to Trawlers and Flybridge type in the 39 to 42 feet range. There is more choice in flybridge types than trawlers any idea on difference in ride comfort? What hull type is a typical flybridge? Is it a semi-displacement or planing hull or something between?

    Trawlers: Beneteau Swift, Grand Banks, Belliure
    Flybridge: Beneteau Antares, Astinor, Astondoa, Atlantis, Azimut, Doqueve, Princess, Rodman, Jeanneau Prestige,..
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Hi, my experience is that your third boat could be a keeper... ;-)
  3. 30West

    30West Member

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    You need to experience different types of boats in different situations for extended periods, before you can choose a boat you will be happy with for even a few years, much less the rest of your boating days. Boating experience will change you, and change what you want and need from a boat. If you have friends with boats, pick their brains, spend time with them. Read the huge amount of information from owners on forums like cruisersforum. You aren't looking at yachts, this isn't probably the best place to get your information, but there are sub-forums here on specific brands, that will be useful.
  4. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 New Member

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    We find Itama go well in the Med ,the high deadrise 23 degrees in my case a 42 , means a nice soft ride and you can keep your speed up in a long crossing .
    Med weather is often changeable - sea state wise ( sure blue sky sun all day ) but on a passage of even 40 miles due to the different mountain ranges on land and weather patterns blowing in from the Atlantic , Artic. And the east you can get it all in one day .
    For seakeeping look at deadrise angles ,
    Itama , Baia , Magmum , Otam etc --- get one with a Deep V said to be over 18 degrees the higher the better .
    "Man maths " it's nice to cruise @ 100 miles in 3 hrs often that's a change of country too .
    You need plenty of outside space too .
  5. BFOD

    BFOD New Member

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    If i am correct deadrise (aft) is the angle at transom.
    What is the relation between deadrise at bow entry and deadrise at transom.
    Where can I find information on deadrise for used boats.

    So how to find out on used boats if a make/model has a Deep Vee.
  6. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

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    Ok....first : how fast you want to go?
    If you want to go 9 knots (this is the cruising speed of a trawler), deep V has no influence, and not one trawler will be deep V
    A deep V (from 21 to 26° at transom ) does not support well super structures, and is usefull only after a certain speed.
    In one word, Grand Banks and other boats alike do not have Deep V.
    Deep V you can find on : Magnum, Itama, Otam and few others, but this boats are only open.
    If you want a nice compromise, I suggest boats like Hinckley, Mochi Dolphin or other well made lobster boat.
    Another idea could be a fishing boat like Viking or Hatteras, they handle the sea pretty well (do not go for a Tiara, I had one, and it is not a good boat).
    Just remember that deep V boats burn much more gasoline than not deep V boats since they move much more water.
    So either lobster boats or fishing boats burn a lot (they have usually a V close to 19° at transom and they are heavy)
    Another solution could be an Intrepid 43 or 47 (deep V, great quality, outboards)
    Since I dislike slow boats ( they are ok if you have a captain and he moves the boat at night while you are sleeping), I will never go for a trawler, but this is just personal taste.
    In any case remember that trawlers roll a lot, so make sure you install a fin system or a seakeeper, otherwise you and your family will not be very happy.
    I have an Itama, great hull (quality wise.....I do not suggest to buy one unless you want to fight few years to solve the problems, as I did)
    Hope my advices will help you, but in any case remember that only once you have experience you will understand what will be the best boat for you, which means......you will need to change few boats before understanding what is perfect for you.
  7. BFOD

    BFOD New Member

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    Thanks for your advice

    Trawler is a boat style and exist in Full-displacement, semi-displacement and planing hull types.

    My speed for boating will be in the range 11 to 15 knots, 20 knots on occasion and 9 knots for long distance.

    Bottom line i will need to sea trail a lot.
  8. rpontual

    rpontual New Member

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    I was looking for a boat of this size and came accross the Nimbus 405. I ended up on another boat because my goals are different, but this boat seems to be a good match to all points you made.
  9. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

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    If your goals are that speeds, then trawler alike is a good choice. No one of them has a Deep V, they are all around 12/14 ° at stern.
    Only remember : when going at 20 knots with a planning or semi planning trawler you will burn as much or more than a Deep V at 30.
    Do not fool yourself with the story of the liter(or gallon) per hour : always check the liters (or gallons) per nautical miles.
    Then....it is only budget : usually you get what you pay.
  10. BFOD

    BFOD New Member

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    2ft to 3ft Mediterranean Sea, is there a big difference in ride quality between a planing hull like Beneteau Antares Fly (deep Vee?) and a semi-displacement Beneteau Swift Trawler 42/44. I guess 2ft to 3ft sea will not allow to go on plane for hours.

    It seems like Grand Banks 42 or made of gold.

    Used Grand Banks 42 year 1991 at same price as Beneteau Swift Trawler 42 year 2005.

    Same price for 14-year older and out-of-date machinery, plumbing and interior, I am missing something?
  11. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Grand Banks is build like a brick compared to the Beneteau you mention.
    For what you want I suggest Azimut Magellano, or other Italian makes as Estensi Maine or the Sun Deck series, these last both designed by Zuccheri. You can also look at some other builders from UK like Hardy although finishing and detail is not as good as the Italians, but GRP is up to the same standard.
  12. BFOD

    BFOD New Member

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    Thx for the information on some brands new to me.

    Grand banks maybe build as a tank, who needs a tank with old machinery. To me there value is overrated.

    The Azimut Magellano is a nice alternative but very new on the market and hence no used boat available.

    Is there any information on internet on how the hull of used boats are build, full glass, balsa core,... Beneteau uses resin infusion to protect the balsa core from rot.
  13. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  14. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    I agree with this assessment, but society tends to herald name brands, often giving them more credit than deserved.

    Contrary to numerous articles that are clearly advertiser biased, if you're looking for a well built, sea-worthy boat, I would take Beneteau off the list.
  15. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Please note that what I am saying is that for build quality Grand Banks is much more stronger then a Beneteau.
    I see twenty thirty years old GBs still looking nice in marinas and boat yards, and some of these have been running around the med in various places.
  16. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

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    Beneteau is poorly made, you always get what you pay for.....One is a boat which fall apart after very few years, the other one is a boat that last forever......It is like saying why a Range Rover costs used more than a Trabant.....
  17. BFOD

    BFOD New Member

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    Can you be more specific? I can't find any critical review on Beneteau brand.
  18. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster New Member

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    Get an Elling E4. Built like a tank-Finished like a yacht. Biggest 50' living space inside of any seaworthy boat. Seaworthy. Maneuverable. Great fuel economy at hull speed. Able to get out of weather if needed at 15kts. And if you completely duck-it-up, will always roll back upright - provided you closed the doors & sunroof in the storm!!!

    Ready Judy's review!!
  19. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

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    Well......fiberglass is thin, everything on board from gas springs to forniture is low quality, it is a cheap boat which has a reason to be cheap.
    A well done boat of around 50 feet to be really well done should cost new around 1.5 million us dollars. If it costs new around 600.000 can't be done with great materials....
    Beneteau is probably the best done boat between the cheap once, but ......do not pretend too much from a Beneteau....same as Janneau, Bavaria, and many others.
  20. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

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    I support this statement.

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