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New to Yachting; 13 Million to spend -

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Seeker, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. Seeker

    Seeker New Member

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    Hi mates, I am looking forward to obtaining feedback on a dream of mine to own a Yacht and explore the open waters. I have had a passion for boating all my life but due to finances I was lucky to expend 20,000 on a boat. None the less, I enjoyed getting my feet wet. I now have come into money and would like to persue my dream of owning one of the larger boats.

    There are so many choices out there, that I am just overwhelmed with where to begin. The biggest boat I have owned is 20', and now I could be looking for a boat upwards of 100'. Reality check?:) I know nothing at this point, so will be grabbing all the information I can get. What I do know is I have 13 Million that I am willing to invest, but realistically I am going to have to scale the price back so that I can afford the upkeep/maint/operation costs of this new boat.

    I am not sure what to shoot for. Is it realistic to spend 10 Mil on the boat and hanging onto 3 Mil for the operational costs for a 5 year period? I might be getting ahead of myself here, talking about costs already, because in reality I have no clue of what boat I am going to be pursuing.

    I want to be able to go down the east coast around FL and into the Gulf. I would even enjoy going straight east for 100 Miles into the middle of no where into the Atlantic ocean. Like I said, Im a virgin to the limits of a boat and navigational capabilities.

    I will act like a sponge and absorb all of the information I can get in the upcoming months. I am the type of person that doesn't require/desire any of the extreme bells and whistles. I don't need exotic wood, or any extreme eye candy for that matter. Simple oak finish and modest cosmetics are fine with me. I feel my money is best spent in the mechanical aspect of a boat. I want reliability and function above anything else.

    My guess is perhaps I should be looking at a newer yacht. My plans will be to pretty much live on this boat for the next 5 years with my wife. Just a little about myself. I am a handyman in the arts of carpentry, and have even gone as far as overhauling/restoring a 65 mustang. :) I have no problem doing basic repairs and getting my hands dirty. I actually welcome/enjoy doing upkeep and maint myself, but I know my limits. Thank you for reading my post and hopefully getting enough feedback to assist me with direction.

    Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.


    Mick
  2. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Assuming you're for real here, do you want to run the boat yourself or will you have a captain and crew?

    Because I doubt you'll find insurance to run a boat that size with your limited experience.

    And to do what you say you want to do there is no need for a boat that big nor that expensive. Especially in this way down boat market.
  3. Seeker

    Seeker New Member

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    Capt Bill11, Thanks for the reply.

    I have no idea about what size we are looking for or even where to start. To answer your question about a captain and crew, I have had conversations about this with my wife, and am not against having a small crew by any means. This is a dream of mine, and i'm not sure where to start. I want to do this right, and make this an enjoyable venture and not have regrets after the fact. The one thing I do know is what we are willing to invest at this point in time. We were extremely fortunate with inheritance which has given me the ability to persue this dream. Everything else is a whirlwind - Fiberglass, steel, aluminum........, cost.... , insurance, registrations...., headaches?? Can we do this much cheaper ? Am I thinking to Big for the adventure im looking for here?

    Thanks
    Mick
  4. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    You might be thinking a tad big. But it's hard to say till you really define what you want to do and where you want to go with a boat.

    You could get a nice 70 - 80 foot boat that could be run by a crew of two and have a grand old time of it without breaking the bank. Or you could get a 50-65 foot boat that you and your wife could handle, after a period of training, and maybe have more fun doing your own thing with lots of privacy.

    But once you get to 100' feet you are looking at a crew of at least 3 unless you don't move much with it.

    Do you need a big boat because you have lots of family or friends to bring along?
  5. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    You probably should think about charting a few different boats for some time to get a better feeling for your requirements and wishes.

    I guess if you would prefer having crew it´s well possible to live quite comfortable on a serious displacement yacht from 75ft. up.
    That would allow for a crew of 2 and an owners couple cruising and living aboard comfortably with up to 4 guests (which obviously should be guests meaning the should leave after some time).

    How many people are in your party permanently? Just you and your wife?
    Do you want a comfortble displacement yacht for extended cruising or a fast toy with two greedy holes in the tank sipping about 300 liters per hour?

    65ft. is a reasonable size limit if the boat is to be operated by an experienced owner couple with no paid hands aboard. And it would allow for having a crew of 2.

    If you want permanent crew (which you might find helpful for the first time, at least until you have some experience on your own) you might also think about something in the 75ft. to 80ft. range.

    And you certainly don´t need to spend about 10 mio. for a fine preowned vessel of that size. It´s fine if you don´t mind considering 3 mio. as budget for living, cruising and boating expenses for 5 years, but you´d better exchange the numbers, at least a little.
    Spending up to 3 Mio. for the boat (2 will do) and accepting that using, maintaining and keeping the boat might cost around 150.000 to 250.000 per year with 2 crew will allow you to enjoy the whole eperience. Keep about a quarter of the money you will spend on purchasing your boat readily availeable for unwanted incidents.
    And find something safe you can invest the remainig money and live on the profit of that investment.
    If you really want to spend the 10 mio. for the boat you might just get more boat than you need. Of course you could get something considerably beyond the 100ft. but that´s a completely differnt story in terms of running expenses. If you want to get rid of that budget do so, but I guess you don´t have to got that far to find a vessel to be happy with.
    Check the boats on yachtworld.com to get an idea of what is availeable within your budget, you´d be surprised how much you can spend on 60ft and how reasonable the prices for a well kept bigger boat can be. There is plenty of choce with the money at hand.
    But my best advice I can give is just take some 100.000 and charter about 4 -5 weeks on different boats to find out what is suiteable for you.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Before you blow your last dime (easy to do boating, especially with an open wallet), do a lot of reading here. Use the search feature and key in "new boater, livaboard, and any other terms you can think of relative to your situation/dream. This thread seams to come up every year or so with various amounts and sources. It's usually started by a bored 16 year old. So excuse my taking this with a grain of salt. If you are real however, do as I said. It will keep you busy for quite awhile and get you the answers to nearly all of your questions. To start you off, the cruising plan you describe can be done comfortably on a 50 footer on up. The bigger you get, the fewer places you can go and the bigger project it is to do it. With 13M I wouldn't spend more than 1.5M on a boat.
  7. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    13 mio. to blow out for boating for a 5 year cruising experience...
    One could wonder what size the heritge was in total.
    But if Mick got 13 mio. in total then limiting the boating budget to 20% of it, initial purchase price and pocket money for a few years to keep the boat would be quite reasonable.
    Sorry Mick, I know it´s a little inadequate behaviour to make that sort of speculations. However there are forums where some members would suggest not to feed the trolls when someone tells right away that he inherited big money and wants to spend these numbers on boats.
    I am rather new here and I believe it´s quite nice that it seems to be a little different here.
  8. Seeker

    Seeker New Member

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    Thank you so much for the feedback. I can see now that I will be spending many weeks if not months researching. I am rather concerned that with my current budget that I am not going to be able to do exactly what I want to do. We have alot of flex room if need be on expanding our budget if we feel comfortable with the purchase.

    To answer a few questions, what we are looking for is to be able to Live aboard the yacht with my wife and with the minimum crew as possible to manage the boat. On occations perhaps 3 times a year we would have 12-13 family members aboard the boat as well as our crew. 98% of the time it would just be my wife/myself and crew.

    We would want a boat that we could stay out for extended periods of time. Like I said earlier I don't want eye candy on the enterior of the boat, but more so basic oak finish, with solid fixtures. I would be more apt to put my money into the mechanical aspects of the boat. I would want the largest power options for the boat, and yes its nice to have the boat sip some gass when you want to have some fun.

    Thanks for the information on chartering boats out. Thats one great way to get an idea on footprint, and some well deserved vacation time to boot.

    NYCAP23, if I am understanding you right, your saying that to budget for a 5 year period, we should be spending 1.5 Mil on the boat and the remaindering funds on maint/operation costs? If thats the case, to do what we want to do we are going to have to change a few of our other endeavers we were looking into, and be flexable with our funds with this project. Its nice to know what we are getting into before we jump in.

    Thanks again for the valuable feedback.

    Mick
  9. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Besides the probability of a conection between certain members and certain builders around here, is there anybody who wants to talk guy who thinks of serious long time cruising and living aboard into buying a rocket that would do 400 miles on 8000 liters of fuel and then needs the next bunkering station?
    I mean my boat of 65ft. does 400 miles on 300 to 600 liters depending on the speed. While I know that´s to the other extreme it might be reasonable to think about something that´s on the better side of this range.

    I´d suggest to have an adult sized vessel that´s capable of doing some serious cruising with moderate consumption and carry some toys for the fast fun.
    With a dozen guests at the same time aboard you might not get away with 80ft. But then again, the ship (yes, we´re allready talking about ship with that size) will feel like a pretty lonely place when the left. Mick, you should find a balance here!
  10. Seeker

    Seeker New Member

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    Aye..., no worries mate. We had to get realistic with what we wanted to do with the rest of our lives. We are being extremely cautious and when we set this budget up it was literally after a few weekends of discusing other endeavors that we wanted to persue. We have ample play room to put more into this venture, if we want to sacrifice some other toys:) As for the 5 year spread, that is to give us an idea of associated costs to set a budget up for our long term goals. Who knows..., we may choose to trade up, or trade down, or to get out of boating all together by that time.

    Thanks

    Mick
  11. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Mick, you might want to think about the quetion if the boat is supposed to host the whole family reunion for a week or if you´re fine with getting some of them a nice hotel for that time while enjoying the boat together during daytime. Then about 80ft. might be just fine. Else it would rather be a small cruise ship. :D
    Besides that if you go beyond 12 + crew we might have to think about registration issues. You would exceed pleasure craft registration limits with that. You might think about hiring a qualified consultant/Captain guiding you through the purchasing process to have an independent third when dealing with brokers.
  12. 14freedom

    14freedom New Member

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    You start with 13M?

    Geez,
    Cutting into Colbert Report.
    With that kind of money, I will refer you to a GREAT BROKER. He will go over all parameters and find your deal. I've known him for almost 20 years.
    I just bought a 43' MY for family fun. You need someone for guidance and direction.
    I can also put you onto a 92' that is IMMACULATE, I know as I interviewed as Capt. years ago, know the owner and history...and you'll have 12M in the bank.
    ATB-
    Dan
  13. Seeker

    Seeker New Member

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    haha I hear ya...., Lots of things to consider here! I like the idea of booting them out for the night into the motel actually. I love my family to death, but......


    Mick
  14. Seeker

    Seeker New Member

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    My tastes are falling in the area of this boat right here. Its a Westport PM 85. There is a 2011 listed on the review at boattest. I went to there website directly, and it seems the 85 is the smallest boat they make. I think its beautfully laid out, but what do I know? The asking cost of a prebuilt 2010 is 5.9 Mil. Anyone have pro's / cons to this compared to other boats in its bracket that would be more suitable?

    Mick
  15. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Take a look at the Vicem Classic 92 (in fact they are 96ft. over all), perhaps you might like that as well. There are two preowned ones for sale (2ears old) for 4.3mio USD.
  16. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Westport makes a nice boat for sure. And for that price you could could get a nice used Westport 112' or a Crescent 115' for that matter. If you want the extra space.

    And there are a number Westports to charter. If you end up interested in chartering let me know if you'd like and I can direct you to some nice boats and crews.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't walk down the same side of the street as a broker at this point. Get an education first. That way you can buy instead of being sold. You can see the persuasion already getting started. Stating numbers like 13M is like dropping chum. 1st the little fish appear and then the sharks in very short order.
  18. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    +1
    Charter a number of different boats first, definitely. Experience first hand what might fit your idea of yachting, learn about fuel consumption and seakeeping abilities, get an idea of life aboard.
  19. ThirdHatt

    ThirdHatt Senior Member

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    Great advice above. Research, research, charter, research, and charter some more! THEN start looking around for a great broker. Beware: everybody knows a good broker and there are tons out there but unfortunately there are only a handful who have been successfully doing big boats for more than two decades that really know their stuff.

    I would imagine that you will probably be comfortable in something in the 80-100' range with 2-3 crew. Because it will be just you and the wife 98% of the time, it would not be wise to buy a boat that can handle 12-13 family members plus you and your crew because you will have to pay for and maintain that much more boat all year long waiting for the one big family vacation. It would be best to rent a beach house/condo/hotel room(s) for the overflow guests near where the boat will be based for the duration of the trip. You would be surprised how small a 120' boat can become with 20 people on board 24/7 for a week or two. Trust me, I know this from personal experience!

    You should certainly buy a newer boat, but not brand new. Brand new you will lose a big chunk of your investment immediately, so a 1-3 yr old boat would give you the new look/feel/smell of a brand new boat with full warranties yet someone else has already absorbed the big "new boat" depreciation hit. Beyond that, I recommend fiberglass construction strictly from a maintenance standpoint. Aluminum corrodes in saltwater environments and therefore requires more maintenance than a comparable fiberglass boat. Paint jobs are one of the more expensive and time consuming tasks in boat ownership and even if the cost is not as much of a problem for you being without the use of your boat for months at a time would certainly be at the very least inconvenient. A professional, high quality paint job can often last twice as long on a fiberglass boat as opposed to an aluminum boat. Pacific Mariner/Westport are one of the more respected builders who deal exclusively in fiberglass construction so you are already headed down the right path.

    GOOD LUCK!!!
  20. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Beeing the second owner has definitely some advantages. The first owner will make 2 considerable contributions to your pleasure with boating, he´ll sponsor your yacht by making a serious downpayment for making it more affordable for you and he will take care of your new boat like it was his baby and take care of all the annoying small and bigger warranty issues before he hands your boat over to you. And he might even install some additional nice extras before. :D :D :D
    You know, beeing a highly complex product that is (semi-) custom made, big boats are almost certainly beta versions on delivery, only difference ist the yards commitment and care. But no boat is perfect from the beginning. Leave the pain of taking care of sometimes embarrassing numbers of tiny problems to someone else. Boats are very different from cars in that way.;)
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011

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