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Boat Tax in Italy for Foreign Owned Yachts

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by david_japp, Dec 10, 2011.

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  1. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Anyone proposing to keep keep or use a yacht in Italy should be aware of the new "Austerity Measures" boat tax the Italian Government recently announced: as of May 2013 a tax will be levied on all foreign owned motor and sailing yachts that are based in, or even just entering and temporarily within, Italian waters.

    The rates announced are as follows:
    10-12m : 7 euros per day
    12-14m : 12 euros per day
    14-17m : 40 euros per day
    17-24m : 75 euros per day
    >24m :150 euros per day

    There may be a 50% reduction for sailing yachts

    If these taxes are implemented, in all likelihood it wont be long before all the neighboring EU and other Mediterranean countries implement a similar tax.
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    If this will be for real, the Italian economy will suffer even more...
  3. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    That looks very reasonable, even under-priced. That's what the average superyacht pays out for an "illegal day-worker" for 8 hours labour to help out the crew in ports here in Europe preparing for the arrival of the owner / charterer. I don't see how any superyacht owners would refuse to pay such a small sum in return for the freedom of cruising Italy's long and beautiful coastline and territorial waters. At least, it will somehow compensate the Italian ports and coastal towns for the costs of disposing of all the rubbish these yachts deliver ashore via their tenders every morning and into the bins provided. Just because the yacht's chef buys a few kilos of fresh vegetables in the local market every few days doesn't really compensate...
  4. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I can see quite a few foreigned flagged vessels leaving the Italian ports if the annual cost goes up with 54.750 €. But the hassle of paying per day for cruising their waters will probably upset more than the actual cost.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Given the ecconomic crisis it seems entirely in line with the other austerity measures being put in place, except that it's one tax that won't bring protestors into the street. I could definitely see that spreading along the Med coast. As for any argument that it's short-sighted, short term is all that's important right now. Plus, once it spreads, what choice do the yachts have but to pay it?
  6. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    "very reasonable, even under-priced"? with respect, what planet are you on? We're not talking just about super-yachts and their owners or charterers? There are thousands of average families who own boats of between 14-17m who work very hard to enjoy their Mediterranean boating. The new tax will cost them an 40 euros per day - that may seem "reasonable" to you but it will, I suggest, l put Italy out of reach for many. Even worse is the situation for those of us who are lucky enough to own a larger boat ..my boat is 18m - biggish, perhaps, but far from a super-yacht - which will cost me 75 euros per day for every day spent in Italy... probably affordable for a 2 week holiday cruise but not if I want to be based in Italy 365 days a year, as I do and where I would contribute to the local economy through marina fees, fuel, technical and maintenance services, restaurants and flights etc ..
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Are you crazy? All of that rubbish the yachts deliver ashore, most of it was purchased as new products in Italy before it became rubbish. 1 megayacht probably contributes $500,000 to the local economy during the med season. In addition to the chef buying groceries, you have the crew hitting all of the local bars, the guests going out to restaurants, the guests shopping and buying high dollar purses, shoes, jewelery, alcohol, taxi's, fuel, dockage at the marina. What the government gains in revenue from this tax, it will lose 3 times in lost taxes from the boats not going there and buying other goods. Maybe the mega-yachts can afford it, BUT there are a lot of families with smaller boats that simply cannot afford it and will not afford it. Fuel is already taxed ridiculously there.

    I know of a lot of people that completely stopped going to Bimini, Bahamas from South Florida when they raised the customs fee from $100 to $300. It's 50 miles from South Florida and a lot of people used to go over for a 3 day weekend or so, and when they included fuel, dockage , and now the extra customs fee it pissed them off and they go to the FL keys instead.

    The problem with governments and tax is. The more they tax, the more money they waste, and the people see no additional benefits derived from paying more tax. It's diminishing returns.
  8. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Well put.
    One needs to look no further than the fair State of Florida to recognize the economic ramifications of taxes and the lessening thereof.
    Over time, the requirement to depart the state without paying a sales tax on a newly purchased boat grew from 10 days to 90 and to 180 currently. This was due to the FACT that the longer these boats remained in state waters, the more money was spent, and we're talking billions of USD, folks, all documented.
    The thing, also, about the so-called "rich" people? They don't like being screwed with and they understand Lar's and David Japp's thinking.
    They might just vote with their pocketbooks and leave a poorer Italy behind.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    ... with additional discounts available to those who pay cash and do not want an official receipt - a knock off lookalike will be provided.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    " as of May 2013 a tax will be levied on all foreign owned motor and sailing yachts that are based in, or even just entering and temporarily within, Italian waters."

    I d like to see the actual proposal since I m always weary of Internet rumors.

    For boats that are based in italy, this would not surprise me since good ole europe (and the US nowadays) has a long history of over taxing just about everything seen as close to luxurious...

    But if they are going to impose such a tax on visiting boats, they are going to suffer some serious consequences with boats spending less time in their waters and more time elsewhere

    As captain J mentioned, anybody who has been to bimini in the past 5 years has witnessed the effect of over taxing

    The problem with socialists (whether in Europe for 30 years or the US for the past 3) is that they fail to realize the problem is with spending and not revenue...
  11. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Sounds just like what the UK PM David Cameron just did, believing that he might have even 1 or 2 of EU countries standing behind him. As it turns out, all 17 Eurozone contries (those that have already adopted the Euro) plus the remaining 10 EU countries who've basically committed their countries to at some stage adopting the Euro today support the latest plans.

    The UK, like the free-wheeling, tax-avoiding superyacht owner are now in some form of quandary. The UK, together with the USA have had in common a distaste for the Euro which dates back many years and unless I'm much mistaken, have together used their combined resources to undermine the Euro in recent times. That strategy is now back-firing with at least initially, very serious consequences to the UK's economy, soon to become apparent over the next few months. Today, 10th December 2011, the UK has finally been exposed. And alone amongst the other EU 27, fighting its' battles to safeguard the financial centre of London, but also assuring that all the UK's offshore tax-havens are maintained for the benefit of a few.

    For several decades now, the UK has been a thorn in the sides of other EU countries. The UK has always considered EU membership as simply a means to arrest other European countries from going forward together, as that would undermine her own and ultimately the USA's national interests. Perhaps, and finally, the EU countries worthy of the name will be able to proceed, having shrugged off the worst efforts that some nations already mentioned above imposed on other more defenceless nations in various forms.

    What should this mean for yachts (foreign-flagged, outside of the EU)? If they're commercial yachts, earning revenues from their presence in EU waters, then they should be taxed on this income and VAT (sales taxes) applied. Yachts registered for VAT in any of the UK's multiple offshore tax-havens (especially I.O.M.) should be immediately "arrested and chained" if found to be within any EU port. and subjected to in-depth investigations concerning their activities. Whether or not VAT is ever accounted for in reality: "I.O.M. companies can register for VAT under UK provisions, yet I.O.M. companies apparently never have to publish their accounts etc."

    Frankly, I'm under the impression that there is today a whole yachting "sub-industry and culture" composed of so-called financial specialists etc. which has successfully terrorised most yacht owners. In other words, yacht owners are today advised to jump through countless "hoops and throughs" to avoid paying the VAT (sales tax) as applied by most EU countries. The yacht owners pay a small fortune to these advisors, yet have no guarantee that what is proposed is completely legal, or at least might be legal after a lengthy and prolonged legal battle with the tax authorities when it comes to that.

    david_japp wrote:
    Perhaps you should ask the IRS if they might be able to help you out (assuming that you're a US taxpayer and have previously declared that you own such a modest sailboat etc.)
  12. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Ah! Airship's real beef with the world is now revealed through his politicized and ill-informed rant. And to correct him on a couple of points of detail, I am a UK resident and tax payer and my 18mt boat is a vintage motorboat that I've restored over many years and paid for with my hard earned and tax paid income.
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Talk about biting the hand that feeds it, I guess the Pastis or Scotch you seem to imbibe in so frequently must have had a real pasting today.

    How often have we seen you here stating how you have been in the business for years and how it has changed, how thick and stupid the crews are today for using the internet to find things and then asking you or your company to supply it, how wonderful a certain brand of paint is, how Antibes has gone downhill with the popularity or yachting ..... the list is quite long.

    The UK is the only one of the 27 who has not sold their soul on the Euro so what choice did he have?

    Just as you and your company will be when Owners say enough is enough and stay away.


    A bit of currency trading between selling litres of Bilgekote perhaps? You might be interested to know that one of those supposedly responsible for giving the £ such a hiding that the UK stayed out of the Euro is a large yacht Owner - his vessels are privately registered so he pays tax on everything fuel, food, supplies etc.


    ...of the yacht Owners who have sent business your way over the years perhaps?

    I think that you have omitted to mention the countries collectively known by the unfortunate abbreviation of P.I.G.S. - Oh heck aren't they already members of the EU and use the Euro? What happened there or can the blame for their ineptitude and corruption be laid at the UK and USA's feet by a few more drams of your favourite tipple.



    About the sanest thing you have ever written.


    There it goes again, savaging the hand that feeds you.

    You shouldn't just limit your rant to the such a select number, what about the management co's, brokers, incompetent surveyors ( often the three are closely associated behind the scenes)who have all jumped on the cash cow and in some cases have made it so unwelcome and financially damaging for an Owner that they have sold their dream vessel and are no longer a part of that fraternity.

    That was great now I am ready to have my dinner.
  14. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Bon Appetit!
    david
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    In doing an internet search I found this on another forum. However, I could not find any official confirmation of it. Italy is well known for having a multitude of taxes and this would not surprise me, nor would it surprise me to see other med-countries following suit...if it is real Could also be just a rumor started by another country trying to pull business their way:
  16. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Euro

    The whole euro thing is a bit giggle, new rules propose to "punish" those who overspend their budgets, note, France is one who does that continually, so, they threaten to punish , say, Spain, Spain says, screw off or we leave the euro....oppsss sorry Spain, here borrow some more and pay it back later...same as today, ..socialism does not die until the money is all gone...Italy is starting to do that with latest punishment of "cash incoming" . Let's hope the US rejects this form of Government in 2012
  17. AffrayedKnot

    AffrayedKnot Senior Member

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    As I appreciate the news; this is 1) only a proposal and, 2) over a year away, if it should become reality in any form.

    I have four vessels in Italy at the moment. Even by NYCAP's reporting, the lower rate of €90, would be higher than I now pay on contract for per diem berthing.

    Writing only for myself, without political rhetoric... before I'm enjoined to double my cost without benefit - I'll leave Italy.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I should think that, if it takes effect, you'll find at least Greece and Spain following suit rather quickly. That leaves the choice of preferable ports shrinking quickly. I suspect it will be just like the fuel prices. People B & M, but it doesn't stop the prices from rising nor most from buying it. This is just becoming a very expensive world. What you'll see and have been seeing is simply the everyday boater disappearing, but he's the middle class and he's disappearing from the housing market, the stock market, the credit market and the supermarket already. If you have four vessels, where are you going to go for recreation, the North Sea? You'll pay what you have to pay.
  19. AffrayedKnot

    AffrayedKnot Senior Member

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    At the risk of ostracism, from this honorable venue; I don't recreate on any of my boats, including those in Italy. However, I do love the business, and do quite enjoy these vessels as one may appreciate their stocks, bonds or real estate portfolio. At the end of the day, these assets translate to a number on a balance sheet. I can't afford the emotional or irrational attachment that most are privileged to take pleasure in.

    Every dime counts. It's not the purchase price that's painful - that's simply the ante to get into the game. It's the day to day management and maintenance that can easily spin exponentially. But here I'm merely preaching to the choir.

    I currently pay 21% VAT on berthing. Now to add the equivalent of 100% to the taxable base, will force me to another solution. I will certainly monitor these events closely.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Like any business, you'll do it while it works. If true a lot more charter boats will fail because they can't afford the desired locations, and more people will stop using their boat. Basically the same situation that every other industry, and especially small businesses face today. But the fact is there are already riots in many streets over the austerity measures. Not many will sympathize with foreign yachts crying poverty or throwing tantrums, because they know that at least you won't be rioting in the streets or voting people out of office. Even the future damages these measures may cause don't matter to a few governments. They're just concerned about getting through the next few months. I do want to repeat though that I found no confirmation of the story.
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