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Wisdom of creating and holding a sport yacht in an LLC.

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Rusty Mayes, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

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    I may in the near future be interested in selling our 06 Searay 44DB and moving up to a 55 pilot house yacht. Our broker suggested we place the 44 in an LLC to make it desirable to a buyer due to the sales tax savings. I've owned and participated in LLCs in the past and held aircraft with in them. The LLC costs a few bucks to set up and then maintain with minimum income tax liabilities and the filing of income tax returns and LLC filings and such. I am interested in hearing from those that hold their vessels in an LLC or have sold their LLC holding a vessel and thinks its worth the effort and cost.
    Thank you for your consideration
  2. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    I am in both camps: Present boat is owned by an LLC, previous boat owned by an LLC.
    Advantage for the buyer as there is no sales tax but some buyers are ignorant or they don’t care: Sold previous boat instead of the LLC, buyer would rather pay the 6% Florida sales tax than deal with the LLC thingy.
    (He fell in love with the boat, money or sales tax was not an issue, full asking price paid, unreal.)
  3. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    LLC does not save you sales/or use tax, that I know of, unless it is a bona fide business? Holding companys for the benefit of an individual are usually tax pass throughs. Teach me. I have mine in an LLC for liability reasons - as minimal as that is if I am the one piloting the vessel.

    Why would someone buy a NYS LLC to do business in Fla. - 2 tax returns? Asset sales rather than a sale of the corporate book also breaks the chain of liability. Almost nobody does a stock/membership purchase on a closely held business (non-public) for that reason. Why be liable for someone else's negligence that you have no way of discovering before you purchase? That indemnity agreement without a clean letter of credit to back it is worthless.

    No legal advice provided here, only personal thoughts
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  4. Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

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    Its a complicated subject for sure. I understand if you buy the LLC with the boat as its only asset the title remains unchanged so no sale of the vessel is reported and as such no sales tax is due. Depending on the value of the boat the cost of maintaining the LLC would be justified if it made your boat more desirable to a buyer interested in saving the sales tax. It seems to be kind of fringy since Ive yet to hear" hell yes do it , you won't regret it."
  5. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Most sale tax laws have a parallel "use tax" provision which equals the sales tax, if you keep the vessel in the state beyond a proscribed time. Do a quick google for your state. But I am always open to learning something....

    By the way when you register the boat locally, which you are required to do even if documented, you will be asked for a affidavit of purchase price (usually signed under the penalty of perjury) - the state doesn't care if its titled in the same name, it want's to know what funds were exchanged so they get their piece of the action.

    Again no legal advice, just thoughts.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  6. Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

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    Yeah, Actually out here in Ca we don't have to register the boats that are Documented. Much like Aircraft with the FAA, The Feds report the change of ownership to the state if the documentation or registration changes. Since that event never happens with the change of ownership of the LLC the "Sale" never happened. I assume this has been challenged and successfully defended.
    Cheers
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Talk to your accountant. I wouldn’t take advice from a broker, there are too many clueless brokers around.

    Apologies to the good ones:)...

    Indeed when selling you can sell the LLC to avoid paying sales tax but it some buyers feel adds a layer of risk to the deal
  8. Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

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    Sound advice for sure. Brokers do tend to be full of "great ideas" in coming up with ways to separate people from their money;)
  9. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    [QUOTE

    Indeed when selling you can sell the LLC to avoid paying sales tax but it some buyers feel adds a layer of risk to the deal[/QUOTE]


    Indeed, teach me on that one. Unless the state doesn't have a parallel use tax and its used for pleasure, how do you avoid that tax legally?
  10. Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

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    Indeed, teach me on that one. Unless the state doesn't have a parallel use tax and its used for pleasure, how do you avoid that tax legally?[/QUOTE]
    At least in CA, when you buy a company be it a corporation or an LLC there is no sales tax on the transaction. If the LLC is set up in a way where the only asset is the Vessel and a bank account to handle operating expenses and you buy the company, there has technically been no sale of the vessel and hence no tax due. The LLC is under new ownership and management. The transaction gets complicated if financing is involved and that's where an attorney versed in these transactions is required but those fees are dwarfed by the sales tax savings depending on the cost of the boat and the tax rate.
    The LLC does not have show a profit or even be a business to exist as a shield against certain liabilities. Nevada LLCs are particularly difficult to pierce due to state privacy laws so they are pretty popular. You still have to register and report in the state the boat is moored and pay the annual minimum fees.
  11. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Indeed, teach me on that one. Unless the state doesn't have a parallel use tax and its used for pleasure, how do you avoid that tax legally?[/QUOTE]


    They will absolutely ding you when you go in to register the vessel for its use in that state. They will require proof of tax being paid on the transaction. Florida caps it at $18k, but a buyer of a previous boat I owned is wrestling with this right now. He received a letter from the state demanding the payment or proof that the vessel has not been in state waters for 90 days.
  12. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    To answer this credibly, one would have to be an attorney familiar with the tax laws of the state involved. On top of that they would need to know about you, your state of residency, your other assets, your income, your planned boating and your risk tolerance. Then they could advise you appropriately. Every state has different rules and laws and those small differences are what get people in trouble. There are also even differences on some things for residents and non residents.

    We do have our boats in Corporations. However, we will not transfer those corporations to others when selling, no matter the benefits, for personal reasons.

    If you do have an LLC or Corporation you transfer, make sure you get all records on everything changed immediately. We've talked here about having liability when you take over an LLC with unknown liability. Well, you can also find yourself being held accountable for activities of an LLC you no longer own. New owner fails to file with the state, your name still there. New owner does business with a vendor you used but had at one time given a personal guarantee. Registration or documentation not changed promptly so it's like a new car owner riding around with plates still in your name. This problem is rare but it's major when it happens.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't know the sales tax end of it. But I had owners from Michigan buy a yacht in Florida, put it in an LLC, and pay the $18k sales tax. Their residence is MI, but the boat always stayed in Florida, aside from a week or two trip to the Bahamas once or twice a year. They didn't have a residence in FL, so perhaps that's why they set up a Florida LLC?
  15. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    This ^^^^^^. Personally I prefer the path of the least resistance and pay. Everyone pays somehow somewhere sooner or later.