Discussion in 'Viking Yacht' started by PaulVato, Jun 2, 2008.
Oh and for the record, only the coolest kids have serpents
Welcome to the club. 1974 40' here. Still enjoying my Viking and loving the fact my old Viking can hit speeds just over 34knots unlike some of the other older SF boats.
Hi Viking Owners!
My name is Alex and i am in the process of leaving a deposit on a Vintage Viking Sport Fish Convertible 73 33" on Monday for under 4K.
I have some question and any input would help but i do need some direction to help with expectations of this fine beauty. I am a business minded person i have owned successful small IT and computer businesses so i wonder if a small investment here would raise the value of my Viking and if so how much. I don't plan to sell her.
The hard work has already been completed. She has new paint
on her topside and hull sides, new aluminum framed top, ladder, and rocket launchers, new canvas, newer aluminum fuel tanks, and more. The interior has been gutted and reconstruction has been started. The 454 twin Mercruiser engines appear to be locked up. Great candidate to repower with diesel engines. Or, just build the interior the way you like and make her a spacious live aboard.
Ok so here i go.
I was told by a boat yacht dealer/yacht owner to open the heads or spark plugs preferably heads and add 4 qts of mystery oil and turn the motors just a hair everyday for 4 days and she just might loosen up then hire a professional mechanic to clean her up inside and remove water and rust for a restart, is this possible. I love this boat and hope the answer is a yes : ) but honest.
Interior refit costs
Speed and distance she can handle
Fill up or not to fill up
Leave her in Bahamas as a weekend getaway and visit her on my 22ft when she's ready of course for now she stays home.
Charter for fishing and Bahamas getaway
Costs of use
If i replace motors how much will that cost me for used direct replacements
Should i sell my 22ft for 5k and beef up this Yacht? I want to keep both.
Wow she's a beauty!
How do you like living aboard? I might try that sometime, I imagine it would be wonderful. I hope to one day keep the viking I'm about to buy in the Florida keys or Bahamas and use it as a getaway. Is it comfortable for two anything you care to share about comfortbility or your enjoyments of it? Thanks.
I am purchasing a 1973 Viking Convertible Sport Fish 33 with twin 454 Mercruisers.
Hi Alex, most all your questions are very subjective if you are specifically looking to increase the value to sell later. Yeah you could redo the whole interior and make it look beautiful but one person's taste is very different from another. Definitely with how good it looks on the outside and making the inside look just as good adds to the boat if you are trying to resell but, you maybe in the negative when all is said and done....especially if you are hiring someone else to do it with labor costs being so high as opposed to doing it your self. One buyer may love hard wood floors and another may love carpet. I think you may have a good chance of being able to free the engines and if not rebuilding them would be in your best interest since diesels aren't really necessary in that size boat and from what i've see on other forums about the 33' viking is that diesels won't fit the stock location (so I heard). Again another subjective area is chartering the boat vs. not chartering. I know when I was looking at boats, I stayed away from boats that were chartered because they were usually not kept up and had tons of wear as opposed to a private individual that used for his own pleasure...Then again if you come across a person that is looking to buy a boat to charter and you did all the necessary upgrades making it almost new again, that may appeal to that individual and be willing to shell out the money. Also not alot of banks will finance boats older than 20yrs old, thus having to find somebody that can pay cash which is tough because usually when you have a good amount of cash, you tend to look for a newer boat unless the old style appeals to you like it did for me. I mean you could sink 100k in re powering it with diesels and never get that back on a 33' boat that is over 40yrs old even though it is a viking. Yes the 33' was the first fiberglass boat for viking but it was not the boat that put them on the map. I think as long as it is structurally sound (most important) i'd rebuild the engines (probably 4 to 5k for each engine including labor) and obviously redo the interior to what you like since you plan on keeping it. Everybody has such different taste but if anything I think if you sink a modest amount, you may be able to break even or make a tad if you resell which you state you don't plan on doing. Speed and distance I can't tell you since I have a 1974 40'. Also you say tanks have been replaced and if so did they leave it stock size tanks or did they increase tank size? Somebody with a 33' will definitely will be able to help you out with the stock figures when it comes to that. Again I can't justify the cost for diesels for that size boat nor do I think they would fit. But I can tell you that maintenance for the 454's is a heck of a lot cheaper than a diesel engine considering the gas holds only 6 quarts of oil as oppose to a gallon or more in a diesel.
Thank You for that response.
I think 454 direct replacements used motors in good condition might be an option. I saw used motors 454 with 450 hours on ebay is this a good idea for $1500 Each (running but needs work before being 100% )? then in the summer have them in tip top condition with work done by a mechanic? I have another thread open that I'll close on this subject i was trying to get a fast response before Monday : ) for now i just want to get into a Viking and take her home and slowly bring it back to the right condition.
Wishful thinking, if i can free the motors how much can i expect to pay for a mechanic to bring motors to optimal condition? If a rebuild is required what would that cost?
Yes, definitely wishful thinking. I guess the real question is why did it freeze up. Was it over heated or could it have been water intrusion. I suppose if it sat not running for years and years that could cause it to get stuck enough for the starter not to be able to turn it over which would be best case scenario. To have them removed rebuilt and put back in, you are probably looking at 4-5k per engine (not including replacing risers and exhaust manifold which is about 1500 per engine). So that brings you back to the engines you saw on ebay for 1500. Yeah it sounds like a good deal if it has 450hrs but you are taking the persons word and we all know an engine with low hours because of it not running much could be worse than an engine with higher hours that is newer. If its an old engine, you could end up having to pull it apart and redo seals from them drying out and who knows what else. Just remember if you rebuild the engines you have, you will end up replacing the exhaust manifold and risers which I said is about 1200-1500 for each engine and with the running engine and low hours you will have to most likely do the same thing. To be honest I don't think you are saving any money by buying used engines unless they are drop in ready. If i'm going to spend money I rather have my engines be rebuilt than buying used engines and putting them and only have them have problems and go through the same process. By the way, even if you buy engines, you are still going to have to pay labor to remove the old and labor to reinstall the new ones, so with that said you are looking at the same labor either way you go. Only difference is, if you have yours rebuilt you know for sure when you rebuild them and drop them back in you won't have any issues and you know you shouldn't have any problems unlike dropping used engines in.
I missed part of your question about if you can unfreeze the motors. Well I guess it all has to do with why they are frozen. If its just from sitting a long time it could be as simple as new rings, gaskets etc., but if it is from over heating or water intrusion you could be looking at a total different situation and have to have a complete rebuild. I really think if you are keeping the boat and planning on using it, you should just have them rebuilt. Sure you could try the simple thing first and let it soak in marvel mystery oil and try turning it slowly at the crank. You may get lucky and it unfreezes but, don't expect it to be dependable. It obviously became frozen from lack of maintenance, whether that be just letting it sit for years on end with out running, or worse case it was from over heating and even worse, salt water intrusion and it is full of salt water and rusted out.
Hi Alex, Just wanted to chime in here. Depending on how long the motors have been siezed and the cause of seizure, you may be able to free them up. The question becomes, how much damage has been done. For instance, if they were siezed due to water intrusion via head gasket or the motors being submerged (more likely scenario if there is a common problem with both motors.........the chances of both motors blowing a head gasket simutaneously is highly unlikely), then there is presumably damage to the bottom end (main bearings, rod bearings, crank, etc.) as well as the top end (valves, seats, cylinder walls, rings, etc.). This being said, you may be able to get the motors unseized and running, but be careful about relying on them too heavily because there is likely premature wear on parts that you cannot see. My experience has been that if there has been water intrusion, it is often difficult to get a reliable story from a previous owner and you will need to assume the worst and hope for the best. If you decide to move forward on the boat (and it seems like a heck of a boat for the money......even assuming the worst), I would prepare for a repower. I have a boat restoration shop (not looking for any business!!!), but I have extensive experience and would be happy to answer any questions for you!
PierPpressure thank you for your input.
CaptAndy if you'd be willing to help with some pointers or advice I'd greatly appreciate it. Is there an e-mail you can provide so we can communicate further? I'd like to ask some questions also show you some pics of the motor. I am going to see the boat tomorrow to see the condition of the motors and other area of the boat and could use some advice. Also i would like to know if you'd service the motors and how much that would be and so on. I got the boat price down even more so it is likely i will buy it. My plans are to have it ready by the summer as far as motors are concerned and in top shape (operable and reliable) then do the interior. I hope to take it to Bimini or the keys. Do you have any idea on what may be the issue based on the photos i attached?
Thanks in advance.
Yes. EMAIL REMOVED
Only one response and you're already posting your email address? How convenient! Read the rules before posting to YF again. Posting email addresses is a bad idea in public forums, but taking opportunities to drum up business without ever contributing to the knowledge base is even worse.
... finger is on the delete button.
Andy was very helpful in providing information to me on how to get the motors unseized. He didnt charge me a dime for phone consultation besides he's in Charlotte and I am in Florida. He was doing exactly what I asked for. He provided a lot of information I needed by phone and turned out to be a great guy.
Just wanted to let ya know.
Count us in! Relatively new Vintage Viking Owners...purchased a well loved '79 44'DC. Great Boat, spent it's first 30 years in the Great Lakes and was purchased by a dear friend and brought to Jacksonville, FL, which is where we became familiar with her and had the opportunity to purchase her about a year ago. Engines had been rebuilt and have about 450 hours on them and run perfectly, working through a couple of generator problems and interior refresh . Finding it difficult to locate certain parts and would greatly appreciate assistance. Replacement hatch covers, port windows and the Plexiglas mini shield that runs around the upper helm station...
Honestly you probably won't find any parts for the older Vikings unless new old stock is sitting around. The main headquarters in NJ does have some new old stuff still in warehouse i've been told so you may want to try calling them. Also alot of the parts on Vikings in this era such as hatches, windows etc were also used by other boat builders in the NJ area such as Post, Egg, Bertram and Hatteras (I know not in NJ) and Pacemaker. I do have good news about finding the stuff you are looking for. Most of it can be custom made such as Plexiglass shield (pretty inexpensive from Lexan fabricator), and the hatch I believe is still made because other boat builders used the same stuff, hence why they still make them. A good ebay search will turn up some of these things. Oh and Glass is easy for a glass shop to cut to size since they are flat windows.
I'm sorry you said Port Window and they still reproduce or find new old stock with a simple google search.
Hey guys, you can sign me up to. I am under contract to purchase a 1986 41'. This will be my 4th boat, have owned a Colonial, Post,and a Egg Harbor all Jersry boats. This will be my first Viking so advice would be helpful.
We run a 1985 35' Viking Express with Cats and a tower. Love the boat, we make about 10-12 canyon trips each season plus a lot of local runs. She's comfortable and reasonably economical. Handles well for her size.
Checking in again to see if there's any following building up. As to parts - my '76 43 DC seems to me to be built of pretty garden variety components that are reasonably easy to find. If you're looking for, say, the attachments to replace the flybridge venturi (as I am/was) you're probably going to have to have it fabricated. There are limits.
My 43 is just a tough, classically good looking, and nicely designed boat. Old school, not a lot of frills, still does her advertised 27k top end (while consuming fuel at DC-3 quantities), and is way tougher than her skipper.