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VIDEO - Sunk Bertram Discussion

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by YachtForums, Jan 15, 2010.

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  1. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Sad but true, even though it's backwards thinking. When the economic times are at their worst is when it's most important to distinguish yourself among your competitors, not degrade yourself. They have no lock on the market by any means, there are plenty of other manufacturers and dealers out there who are more than willing to cut Ferrettis and MMs throats with this debacle. It's relatively easy to forgive a problem product as long as the customer service is there. Poor customer service though is not so easily forgiven.
  2. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    84Far, many Bertram experts of which I am not will tell you that the 630 hull is a more warped version of the 60, with the same Vee entry to fore, but is more warped and modified with a flatter 15 degrees aft, instead of the 17 of the 60. Which engineer got asked to leave?

    Capt.J the 570 had 2 generators a large 18 or 20kw, and a smaller I think about 10 kw. He took deliverey here in Europe in 2005, but don't know if it is that age or a 2004. Other equipment where a water maker, and many duel systems but I think this is standard on boats of this style. Don't know if he is wrong, I never rode on his or other 570, but he did own both boats for a couple of years before selling the 54. His also had Mans, but no tender or toys to fore, but on the bathing platform aft. He wanted to retro fit the ARG stabilizers the last I spoke to him. I saw the boat in 2006.
  3. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Read through the filing by Bertram in post #313. It's pretty clear to me that this could be applied to absolutely any person who bought a used Bertram. Even if it was a demo boat since they didn't buy it directly from Betram. And probably 95% of first time owners. Bertram states that any defects were created or came into existence after the vessel left their control. ie - you bought it - its your problem now. It was fine when we sold it to you. The whole thing reads like a bad used car sale. It was fine when you drove it off the lot....
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually it could happen to anyone buying any boat. It's why reputations are so important.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The 2nd generator was an option and did not come on the '05 570 I ran for a while.



    Mine had the MAN 1300's, hardtop and outriggers, nothing on the Bow and no swim platform and was in complete factory trim without any additions. So nothing was changed to effect the center of gravity from factory. It didn't even have any personal effects of the owners on board at all, they didn't stay on board. They stayed in hotels and day fished at each location. If your buddy put a tender on the stern, I am sure that much weight in the stern effected the center of gravity enough to make it ride much better.

    Mine did not have a watermaker either. (Not that this would effect balance much if any).

    In the 4 months it broke all of the tabbing between all of the bulkheads and stringers. The movement caused the Bow rail to put a good crack on the bow pulpit where the stancion meets it towards the rear. The door opening in the day head had a big crack from door to ceiling. Everything was starting to flex, and left unattended it probably would have met the same fate as this 630. It sat at Allied in Lauderdale for 4 months, they determined they could not fix it. It was then run down to the factory and it sat there another 2 months where they supposedly fixed it. They extended the hull warranty a year, owner was a SOLID Bertram fan when he bought the boat, owner got disgusted and traded it on a new Viking 61. I was long out of the picture at that point.
  6. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Sure 6 months to fix a boat, I would have done the same. Sad to hear!
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I don't have anything to do with these small boats but see the sloping shoulders of Bertram as a good reason why a serious Maritime Attorney should be engaged to review all Contracts and Warranty Terms in the pre purchase due dilligence for these type of boats as much as they are on the bigger boats I am familiar with.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Keep watching. That appears to be an accidental or test shot. It goes into the video.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    It doesn't load anything more than the Living Room shot for me this time.
  10. geriksen

    geriksen Senior Member

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    Video still works for me.

    Are there any updates on this? Did they ever find the boat again?
    This story sure got quiet...
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Seems to work ok now I am at home, will try again in morning and see if there are some restrictions on our Internet connection.
  12. Be Realistic

    Be Realistic New Member

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    I thought you said you were wondering about buying a Silverton, you sure don't know what you are talking about, what makes you think you even know about delamanation, get a Life!~!!!
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Admin, I think Realistic's first post should be his last. Evidently he is detatched from reality.
  14. Hot Rod

    Hot Rod New Member

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    I second that.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    It isn't often that NYCAP123 and I agree on much but I would have to agree with his post above.
  16. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Be Realistic? Be gone.
  17. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Jhall767, I would like to know what you would do in there situation? Yes, I did read post #313, and it seems that Bertram know something that we do not. It also sounds like the skipper/MM/owner have done something to the boats integrity that we don't know, or the owner failed to tell us in his letter (speculation).

    Also, in relation to the other Bertram, Certifiable, they replaced that one twice (I think, CaptJ might be able to help on that one), with less damage too. So why haven't they touch this one....?

    Far
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Aside from the right or wrong issue, you're talking about trading a new boat for one with some damage to repair vs, a $2M wreck on the bottom of the ocean. At the risk of mixing threads,that much money complicates things a bit.
  19. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    From the first time I saw pictures of it, I'd bet on that boat having seen damage in its days as a demo boat that I seriously doubt the current owner had anything to do with or knowledge of.
  20. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Why do you say it sounds like something was done to the boat based on Bertrams claims? Their claim is essentially "We don't have defects so it must be something you did" This is particularly offensive in light of Certifiable which CLEARLY had manufacturing defects. They go on to claim that even if you prove a manufacturing defect you didn't buy the boat direct from us but from our broker so your screwed anyway.

    What should they have done? Are they a first class organization or a shady used car dealer. What happens when an airplane crashes? They attempt to determine what caused the crash without regard to insurance or warranty. If they find mechanical failures they then inspect any other planes that MIGHT have the same problem. How likely is it that WHATEVER happened to this boat has happened to another 63? If the damage happened while in MM's care then it was apparently not detected by the survey. As such is it unreasonable to believe that other yachts might have the same undetectable problem? Did, as they allege, some modification compromise the hull integrity? If so then determine what is was and send a notice to all owners. Determine all the issues, let the blame fall where it may and then FIX the problem. Don't just hope it's something unique to this boat. Or make silly claims like they might have hit a small buoy causing that much damage because we found a tiny mark on the buoy. What if the sinking had been in worse conditions? Further offshore, colder water, at night.

    I see in their filing the company attitude. They'll fix the problem if it's small. If it's big then better hope your insurance covers it because they won't. Every other yacht may be fine. Bertram may have done absolutely nothing wrong in the construction of this boat. It may just have been a bad container of hardener that got used on part of this boat that they had no way of detecting. What I take issue with is that they are not willing to find out because it might be their fault after all.

    I think many of these companies are not ready for the internet. Ten years ago very few people would have seen the video or even the court filings. It all would have been swept under the carpet. Certainly no one hundreds of miles away would have seen them.

    Bottom line is there are other builders that haven't screwed up like this yet. So I'll take my chances with them first. If Bertram/Ferretti had stepped up to the plate on this one they would have put themselves ahead of everyone else.